In all seriousness though (although i do think super > u1 is borderline insulting) all i’d like to see from him are a couple frame/hitbox tweaks (i.e. his fierces/roundhouses), a better locking ex mgu, and a 4f low short.
Better than that i would want capcom to take a good look at the character and what they want him to actually do, what type of playstyle he should be. I feel they just threw him here and didnt put too much thought into it, and it shows.
However as it is right now i feel nerfs/buffs to other chars will affect him more than buffs/nerfs to himself, just as it did in the ae > ae2012 transition.
I think it’s the other way around. I think Deejay was one of the first characters they had when they announced the DLC, they made him “too good” and then knee jerk castrated him. In the beginning people were talking about how Deejay was going to be top tier and such.
Making a good matchup better would, however, give players incentive to actually use Deejay over other chars. Also I don’t feel it’s a bad thing to have a char with weaknesses. So I don’t really think that is the solution.
However, the two weaknesses DeeJay has that virtually the entire cast can exploit are:
Poor long-range pokes (well poor pokes in general). This is a combination of range, hitboxes, and damage.
Extremely vulnerable to low meaties (or more specifically crouching short) on wakeup.
I already noted that Capcom should look into improving his fierces and roundhouses somewhat since those are his longer-range pokes, and it would indirectly improve his damage output as well, as they would be able to be relied on more. In that pre-release video i linked Seth says that deejay is meant to control the space in front on him, but in practice it’s not quite like that now is it? Especially when characters like Fei Long exist?
As for the second issue…i’m torn on it. On one hand the solution is simple: increase invincibility on EX MGU startup, such that DeeJay will always have an option for whatever the opponent tries to do, but on the other hand I am fine with my character having weaknesses like that. He can get locked down VERY hard with it though, I’ve experienced that first hand. (lol makoto low forward)
Either way he doesn’t exist in a vacuum, and nerfs/buffs to other chars will have an impact on him. So…I dunno. I’ll still play him (unless they overbuff him and his general game becomes braindead) so meh.
His low short being 5f is completely unnecessary though. It just gives the player needless work (i.e. tech timing, stricter links on already low damage and limited combos). Just make that 4f Capcom. Give him an added dimension to that “vortex”.
Rose most certainly is, no question. It’s a bit more complicated with Bison. Bison’s standard pressure game is a nightmare for DeeJay (moreso than other characters), however DeeJay can do a little more than most in preventing Bison from getting that pressure game started. Not in DJ’s favor though.
far st.hk 8f startup
all version of mgu have homing properties. I hate when all of the punches hit except the last
far st.hp always launch on CH
U2 b,f,b,f motion and after landing ultra DJ is standing further away from opponent
U1 10f startup with more range and tracking properties
far st.mp 6f startup
close st.hk 5+ on hit
close st.hp hit crouchers
lk sobat -3 on block
lk sobat unthrowable
ex mgu more invincibility
Damn it takes a lot for him to be tournament viable
I see everyone asking for a 3 frame crouching lk. Do you want to keep it -3 on block? Then you’re setting yourself up for a sweet punish for whoever you are crouch teching. When they give you your 3 frame short, are you going to start crouch teching more? Do you know that it’s easier for people who have awesome counter hit setups to hit you with them when you’re more prone to crouch teching? Four frames for the cr lk is fine. Someone said it earlier and I’m just reiterating that if everyone has a 3 frame cr lk/lp then the entire cast would be the same outside of visual animations of their moves.
I like the change they added to Guy’s U1 wherein he would moved forward faster; that’s something I would like to see changed with our own Ultra 1. Two more frames of fireball invincibility for the Ultra and for the Super. No other changes to the invincibility overall.
Machine gun upper needs to connect fully. Hitting once and not being a complete combo makes the move very undependable.
Hk Sobat on hit. Why is it -1 when there isn’t a soft knock down? Add the soft knockdown to mk and hk sobat.
Dee Jay has great AA’s. Ok no I’m trolling they’re ass, you need to know EXACTLY where to use each normal in each match up for each jump in. There’s no real “go to” normal to use for AA’s. Not everyone is going to just sit there and hold down charge, that makes people walk forward on you and less likely to jump. Or more likely to jump over your badly spaced fireball.
I’d like for Capcom to first remove part of the hurtbox on Dee Jay’s crouch hp that exists above his head and part of the shoulders. Does that make close mp redundant? Or is it better for when you think far mp won’t come out in time? Or do I just slide?
Having a good frame traps means improving something in our game. I don’t see our normals buffed with large amounts of block stun so maybe we have to pray for an increase to the block stun that air slashers do. I like +1/+4 block/hit for normal and +2/+6 for EX. That would also have me asking for a 10 frame start up on regular air slashers (it’s currently 12). I’m on the fence with recovery. One one hand I’d like to see us have 3 less frames of recovery (currently 37) but on the other I feel like asking for too much is a waste.
The only really personal one that I’m asking for is that counter hit far fierce. Counter hit should always launch and juggle. I like seeing bitches getting launched Kappa.
*Far Fp CH launch
How often do you guys even hit a CH with this. Its horrible on block (and hit) and wouldn’t giving it this promote using a bad move more? I could understand if it was like rufus’s always launches (far Hk).
Add-
Always Launches?
or
Reduced recovery frames?
*Far st.hk
Has horrible frame data as well. Would rather have Far st.mk buff’d damage or priotory wise.
*Airborn Sobat / MGU fix / Save U1 Charity
[OK!]
*Post U2 Problems
Give the Maracas interruptible frames just like a taunt
*Cl.HK +5 on hit
LOL fadc combo’s (thats +4 after dash right?)
*ex mgu more invincibility
Pushing for this move to have armour over adding more invincibility to overcome getting beat by meaties.
*New Suggestion
Lower the high restriction on kneeshot. (Some kind of jump feint Instant overhead tricks) Buff its hitboxes.
they are, but i played them enough and they are winnable. we don’t NEED buffs there, plus some other buffs could affect those matches cause deejay’s universal jab flaw is . . . universal lol
*2 low mediums. Short you can get over with lk sobat, ex mgu actually is OK there (at best), and ex sobat.
agree with long pokes
increasing invincibility on ex mgu will still make him suck against meaties because the move is slow as hell for a reversal. won’t be much better than ex soul spiral.
cr. short can’t be faster than 4f or else we’ll have a low short better than cody and capcom obviously doesn’t want that. We’ll punish everything all day. it would be lovely, but its kind of silly to have long range 3f cr. short. it would make deejays game vicious tho. i’m trying to keep it fair.
you can get lows into your mixup if you really train your opponent, but it takes me about 4-5 games to really work in that low and make it really effective. Idk if that’s me not programming faster or the short just being too slow.
i agree with most, but no b f b f ultra. does too much damage to make that simple. I actually like the pretzel motion
U1 9f startup would punish focus lvl1 backdash from most of the cast. So i’d like that, but a 1f start up change on U1 won’t help it as much as more projectile invincibility and range would. I would like ex fireball > u1 to be feasible.
far st. mp hit crouching would also be nice, but i would definitely take 6f. That would give more damage to cross up combos because of the range.
cl hk like would be cool, but i can’t see myself using that too much.
what they should fix is that range where deejay max range j. hk can’t be followed by anything at all. unless its deep and you might get far hk lol
st. hp should hit crouchers. Other wise that button is mostly useless. I had beaten crossups with it unintentionally.
lk sobat -3 and unpunishable would be ridiculous. kind of sakura tatsu status except you get soft knockdown. it would definitely help the guile matchup.
making it also unthrowable makes it one property away from being a back charge dp or honda headbutt lol
if they make it -3 i think it would have to have less pushback on block so ppl could still have a change to punish with a jab punish
ex mgu more invincibility might not help as much as you’d think if its still going to be a 12f move. Well timed meaties would recover then we’d be opened up to more of an OS game along with the frame trap deejay on wake up game.
cr. short being -3 is ok because its chainable and the range is nice. just push them out of range.
U1 needs more projectile invincibility and super needs more as well. All supers should be change to 7f or something. HK super is worse than ultra. Maybe projectile invincibility after the move connects? so once it starts it fully connects and finishes and you won’t get hit out of it with a projectile. it costs a whole bar. make it worth something.
MGU obviously needs to be addressed
cr. hp wouldn’t be redundant with cl mp because cr. hp could be done everywhere at anytimg. cl. mp requires a specific range and it would still be better against close high jumps. cr. hp would be interchangeable with far mp at that point tho. i would definitely welcome that change. The first active frame is ok as an AA. matchup specific actually.
I think i already posted that idea about the fireball. If you came up with that on your own it just speaks volumes of how much it should be changed. +1 for spending a bar? Sakura gets a true blockstring and +4. give us a break LOL
If they make Far HP always launch and slower, i’d be happy with that. Could be a nice DP punish if i was charge less. Far HP launch > charge > sobat
HK sobat not guaranteed two its is stupid
I’d like reduced recovery frames so we could use it like a fake fireball (probably asking for too much)
far st. hk needs to be faster. Other than that he gets raped by long pokes (see: ROSE) and you have to just let them push you out, or if you’re in the corner then you have to hold that or you could try random ex sobat, but that’s never recommended.
airborne hk sobat, but no invincibility would be a fair buff. air reset on meaty jabs. lk sobat from super was too good. i would love that back. been preaching that since day 1 super. i told you all you’d miss it “stop crying” “its not that serious” now look at you LOL, but glad you understand.
U2 should only have maracas if it KOs. other than that we should get a setup. It keeps us close, but its dangerous against ppl with fast reversals and grapplers (see:zangief w/ U2)
cl hk being +5 would be ok, but +6 would be better. j hp cl hk cr mp xx mgu if their is enough charge time, but most likely sobat
ex mgu might not help with more invincibility just because it is so slow. instead of getting stuffed the moves with come through, but now, like i said before, we get opened up to this big option select game.
I think ex mgu has low invincibility because it leads to Ultra 2 for a lot of damage. with more ex mgu invincibility probably comes ultra 2 damage nerfs, which would make me very mad.
i’d say mk hk upkicks hit crouching only and only have mid invincibility so its an educated guess on a cr. meaty and you wouldn’t be able to just always do it (see: DP) This way the reversal works. Its restricted to one flaw of Deejay and his overall game doesn’t get too much stronger. Just puts him where he should be.
I wanted to see something done so dash ultra always works. (see: Fei, Adon, Cody, and other small characters)
maybe larger first active frame of Ultra 2? slightly better dash? idk you guys have come up with good stuff so maybe you can find a fair solution.
Deejay is supposed to be the charge Ryu, but his game isn’t nearly as well rounded.
shorter post. we should really start voting on what we’re going to post. maybe have a generic post we could copy and paste then add to. We have to figure out a universal list of buffs/fixes that are ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY then post our own personal problems along with that. If we’re all asking for the same thing that is reasonable and necessary then capcom will probably listen.
in the bison thread they’re asking for cr. fierce AA and its on every page so maybe they’ll seriously consider that.
I’m asking for far fierce to always launch on counter hit because I like it. It’s not necessary though. You will get counter hits with it if you try using it at far ranges instead of far mp. It’s a really bad idea though, I like to try for it because of the juggle after. I would not recommend it though. Everything far hp does (outside of ch launch), far mp accomplishes with greater efficiency.
Jcool, I was looking at both characters with better fireballs than dee jay (excluding sagat, he’s an anomaly). I’m talking about Gouken and Guile. Guile has different frame advantages on each of his fireballs with the “worst” being fierce, it’s 0 on block. All of gouken’s fireballs are +2 on block. I also used them as a base because they have better start up and recovery for their fireballs: Gouken is 8 frames for startup and 32 frames recovery, Guile starts up in 9 frames but has different recovery on each version. Lp is 29 frames, mp is 31 and hp is 33. Seeing as our own air slasher is kind of a joke I thought more frame advantage and less start up would get us closer (but) not match those two.
I hate reading someone’s fireball and getting hit with it when I try to super it. Especially hk super. Wtf is that thing even doing? It’s ass so that’s where the extra fireball invincibility would come in.
I think you’re totally right. We need to take this with a triage approach to make sure he gets the CRUCIAL stuff fixed. We need to identify his worst matchups that keep him from being tournament viable and propose buffs to correct them.
-He MUST get a tool to deal with meaty wakeup pressure
-Needs faster short or jab to punish properly
-Needs a buff to make his pressure game safer (-3 to lk sobat?) and/or a decent buff to his AAs/normals/pokes
We just need to agree on how we want these addressed so we can ALL lobby for the same thing
