That’s a great idea, but I still want for his normals and specials to be faster/safer or something. Playing against a Yun that literally only had to mash on lights and link into huge combos made me think “What’s the point of having damage if there’s no reliable way to express it!”
I would defintely enjoy an approach like that, Im all for improving Goukens fundamentals rather than homogenising him. I really like the idea of leaving his combo normals and ex Senkugo the same but really improving the rest. Heres hoping whichever way capcom decides to go they finally do right by the old man. Or at least give me a kickass Karin for the tougher matchups :3
Politank is correct. Too many characters can just mash semi-safe normals until one of them hits and they can hit confirm off of that because they have this huge hitstun advantage that leads to somewhere…and they don’t need to be cheek to cheek to do it either. No real Gouken player wants Gouken to be Yun or Seth. We want him to have a leveled playing field. More damage will simply make fights vs. weaker players faster…that is all.
The only real item I want from Gouken a faster c.s HP – give him the ability to link c.LP into s.HP/c.HP.
So many other characters have a light to hard poke ability and Gouken doesn’t. While he wouldn’t be a carbon copy clone of other shotos with this single buff, he’d certainly be more “inline” with them in terms of abilities.
I know what you’re really asking for, but I found it amusing given Gouken’s current frame data:
Edit: Made a mistake regarding Gouken’s frame data -
Gouken would need a 3 frame Fierce Punch to link with his jabs.
I like your sugestions, since I like to keep characters unique. I made some changes for Gouken buffs, so this is what I came with:
- EX Sengukoshoha: Increase speed so that the hitconfirm st cl mp cr hp ex palm is not spacing dependent at as long as the st cl mp hits
- Kongoshin (normal): +20 dmg (170)
- Kongoshin: gouken kongo glitch removed, no more
:f: as a shortcut please. - Tatsumaki: Make all versions of tatsu lock on effect on the first hit
- LP: +10 dmg (40)
- cr LP: +10 dmg (30)
- cl MK: +10 dmg (80)
- far MK: +10 dmg (85)
- cr MP: + 10 dmg (80)
- cr MK: + 10 dmg (80)
- ju fw MK: +10 dmg (80)
- HK: + 10 dmg (120)
- Gohadouken: +10 dmg (65)
- charge: +10 dmg (120)
- Senkugoshoha: + 10 dmg for each normal version (100-130-140)
:f:I added most of the dmg buffs you sugested, but kept the kongo glitch, tatsu buff - so his wakeup not to be so horrible, and ex palm buff.
Just make him wake up faster by a couple frames or less and bam he’s up in time to do work
Find something in between. Make c.LP +6 on hit and reduce the startup of c.HP to 6. Not only could he lead into an EX pain train combo, but he could sweep with it as well.
c.HP is already 6f startup.
A change like this would likely be offset with some severe damagae nerfs though.
Specifically, if Gouken could hit confirm from jabs into his BnB, he would be able to take up to ~356 off of a jab hit confirm, using one meter.
That would be beyond broken. Most characters that can do jab confirms can only deal anywhere from under 200 to just barely over 200, whether they spend a meter or not. The only character that comes remotely close to what Gouken would be able to do is Evil Ryu, who maxes out at 333 damage off of jab combos using one meter (even Akuma caps out at 40 damage less than this). Additionally, compare the differences in difficulty there would be between the two:
E. Ryu: cr.lk > cr.lp > (1f link)st.hp > mk.axekick > (1f link) cr.mp > lk.tatsu > ex.shoryuken = 333 damage
Gouken: cl.lp > cl.lp > (1f link)cl.hp > ex.palm > hk.tatsu = 356 damage
Gouken just hits too hard for this to be fair.
Faster wakeup…
Let’s all get on board w this ASAP…too many chefs spoil the ShinSho…
This is a neutral kinda thing in that it doesn’t affect our offense… Hmmm but helps our defense…so maybe not neutral after all…
Alot of 2012 goukens are gonna get this fucked up for the OGs…let’s pick an obscure ass item…I think it could help w the 3 Kongo zones by a faster wakeup animation hi - mid meaty mixup pressure can be lessened perhaps …
What else could this do for gouken while maintaining moveset integrity???
Visiually he is one of the bigger guys, so why not 1050 health…
I’m thinkin too much health could draw uneeded attention as will most suggestions posted here…repeat after me …1.5 frames shaved from his wakeup animation…just think wouldn’t old super f palm be better nowadays?
I justdont want the wrong hype getting the ol man castrated…
Don’t touch gflip at alllllllllllllllllll…command dive mkperhaps but nothing else
I’m concerned with how they will address the “unblockables” and if the ambig attacks will be at risk because of it.
i would like a faster back dash or either more distance on it, and all tatsu hit low and dont get thrown!!!
and what would you sacrifice for a list of incredible buffs like that?
Takin Is funny as hell…
<font size=“4” style=“line-height: normal; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial, Verdana;”>Its been a while since ive been on these forums. You guys prob wont remember me. Anyway even though I stoped visiting I kept on playing gouken. Ive come to the conclusion that his character design is flawed and im not sure if any changes could be made to make him tourny viable. Regardless hes still fun to play and these are the changes I want for him if they do an AE2013</font><div style=“line-height: normal; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial, Verdana;”><br></div><div style=“line-height: normal; font-weight: normal;”><font face=“Arial Black” size=“4”>GOUKEN AE2013 CHANGE REQUESTS</font></div><div style=“line-height: normal; font-weight: normal;”><font face=“Arial Black” style=“font-size: large;”>1) Close standing MK a command normal! </font><b style=“font-size: large;”><font face=“Arial Black”> </font><font face=“Arial”> I mainly want this change for better punish ability in matchups like the guy match up. Only problem is that it will kinda give us some unfair combo’s like crjab x2 stmk xx tastu LOLOLOL! If this change were to be done then that combo along with the others that would be possible would have to be taken way somehow ?!?!?!? </font></b><br></div><div style=“line-height: normal;”><b style=“font-size: large;”><font face=“Arial”><br></font></b></div><div style=“line-height: normal;”><b style=“font-size: large;”><font face=“Arial”>2) Make crlk 4 frames. I want to be able to crouch tech like everyone else and not have to use crmk because crlk is too slow and gets you thrown lol. Also it being faster will help our ground game. </font></b><br></div><div style=“line-height: normal;”><font size=“4”><b><font face=“Arial”><br></font></b></font></div><div><font><b><font face=“Arial” style=“font-size: large; line-height: normal;”>3) Th</font><font style=“font-size: large; line-height: 19.046875px;” face=“sans-serif”>e invincible frames on all rush palms needs to be reworked. Instead of giving us Full invincible frames late into the frames of the palm JUST give us full projectile invincible frames taking away the strike invincibility. We don’t need strike invincibility as the move is used for combo’s and for rolling past projectiles. Make it easier for us to go past projectiles by giving us projectile invincibility throughout most of the moves frames. No strike so the move can be countered by normals and special moves and such (like it can be now lol). This would help gouken alot more then the way it is now. </font></b></font></div><div><font><b><font style=“font-size: large; line-height: 19.046875px;” face=“sans-serif”><br></font></b></font></div><div><font><b><font style=“font-size: large; line-height: 19.046875px;” face=“sans-serif”>4)Make ex palm a bit faster and make the first hit LOCK/ SUCK IN the opponent. In AE 2012 Capcom added 1 extra hit stun on CrHP so our palms would connect. Still there are times when EX palm does not combo and that can get us killed seeing as ex palm is NOT safe on block lol. Making EX palm faster would help us in a couple ways. One by allowing to combo more frequently and making it harder to react to when using it to roll past projectiles. Which brings me to my other problem. Sometimes when I use ex palm the first hit connects but the second wiffs. This should NOT ever happen. By making the first hit lock in this problem would be solved. </font></b></font></div><div><font><b><font style=“font-size: large; line-height: 19.046875px;” face=“sans-serif”><br></font></b></font></div><div><br></div>
<br><div><font><b><font face=“sans-serif” style=“font-size: large; line-height: 19.046875px;”><br></font></b></font></div><div><font><b><font face=“sans-serif” style=“font-size: large; line-height: 19.046875px;”>5)Kongo needs to be reworked in either 1 or 2 ways. Give us our 2 area kongo back or make kongo counter armor break moves. Honestly I want kongo to counter armor break moves. It would make gouken more of a threat seeing as he would be able to kongo wakeup DP and other wake up armor breaking reversals and wake up ultra’s. Gouken would scare and train his opponent to do other things on wake up and kongo would be a force to be reckoned with. Giving us our 2 zone area back would eliminate the stupid extra guessing game we have now. Yes we have ex but that cost meter. Thinking about a kongo countering armor breaking moves just gets me excited!!! EDIT: I forgot one thing dealing with kongo. Some people can activate the move and still not get hit by it. This should not happen. If you activate kongo then you deserve to GET HIT. No bouncing away from it like C viper and seth. This issues needs to be fixed indeed. Perhaps once kongo is activated it quickly sucks the person in and knocks them back or something. Also it should stop anything move that has invincible frames like Zangeifs ex green hand. EX green hand beats kongo LOL. That should not happen. No move should beat kongo!!!</font></b></font></div><div><font><b><font face=“sans-serif” style=“font-size: large; line-height: 19.046875px;”><br></font></b></font></div><div><font><b><font face=“sans-serif” style=“font-size: large; line-height: 19.046875px;”>6) Reduce the recovery on Air tastu and ground tastu. This change is not too important but needs to be looked at. I just feel the recovery gouken deals with is overwelming . </font></b></font></div><div><font><b><font face=“sans-serif” style=“font-size: large; line-height: 19.046875px;”><br></font></b></font></div><div><font><b><font face=“sans-serif” style=“font-size: large; line-height: 19.046875px;”>7) Air parry needs some work. It either needs to start up faster in the air or recover in 4 frames instead of 6. To think that it recovered in 12 frames in Super and vanilla is just crazy capcom wtf!. If air parry parried armor break moves then it would need no change. Also can we get like an EX air parry or something. If air parry parried armor break moves then no need for it lol. As of right now the move is very mediocre. </font></b></font></div><div><font><b><font face=“sans-serif” style=“font-size: large; line-height: 19.046875px;”><br></font></b></font></div><div><font><b><font face=“sans-serif” style=“font-size: large; line-height: 19.046875px;”>8) Goukens fireball game can be hard to get around but I want to make it harder seeing as once an opponent gets in your face it usually spells the end of the round due to goukens horrible defense. I want his fireball game to be reworked in this fashion. The charge for a 2 hit fireball needs to be SLIGHTLY reduced. it takes way too long to charge for a 2 hit I mean look at ONI’s charge time compared to ours. Also the way EX fireball works should change. Pressing lp and mp gives you a 2 hit instant fireball flying only forward. The frame advantage on hit and block should be adjusted accordingly. Now pressing Mp and HP gives you the normal 2 directional fireball we have now and it CAN’T be charged. This would work so much better for us without breaking the balance of gouken. We would finally have an instant 2 hit like everyone else while keeping our other options. I really feel goukens needs this change even more then the others i listed. </font></b></font></div><div><font><b><font face=“sans-serif” style=“font-size: large; line-height: 19.046875px;”><br></font></b></font></div><div><font><b><font face=“sans-serif” style=“font-size: large; line-height: 19.046875px;”>9) The hitboxes on crmk and crHP are good but they could be better. Kinda like what they did with sakura’s CrHP. It was already good but they made it even better. I feel they should do this with gouken. I want a better hitbox for more solid anti airing ability. </font></b></font></div><div><font><b><font face=“sans-serif” style=“font-size: large; line-height: 19.046875px;”><br></font></b></font></div><div><font face=“sans-serif” size=“4”><span style=“line-height: 19.046875px;”><b>10) I know some people want ex tastu to hit crouchers, but then I thought to myself “That would prob be overpowered considering all the other changes I listed”. The move was designed to be an anti air move and not a reversal to be used on wakeup. The hitbox is already godlike and beat EVERYTHING in the air and even sucks in lol. Asking for it to hit crouchers would be a bit much lol. It still be can used as such but people can lower their hitbox to avoid the move. </b></span></font></div><div><font face=“sans-serif” size=“4”><span style=“line-height: 19.046875px;”><b><br></b></span></font></div><div><font face=“sans-serif” size=“4”><span style=“line-height: 19.046875px;”><b>I can’t think of anything else. Our ultra’s are fine. I kinda want them to get rid of backthrow and give us a normal backthrow. Thats just me though. Backthrow to ultra is kinda lame lol. Once again thats just me. Gouken is my favorite SF4 character and I want to see him improve even more while keeping the balance. The changes I listed would do that IMO. What do you guys think? The most dramatic change would be Kongo countering armor breaking moves which honestly won’t change how people fight him that much. People will still throw you all day and bait the move out. Having the ability to kongo anything is still dangerous though. </b></span></font></div><div><br></div>
I know how to make Gouken better. Fix the other characters. <br>Nobody in the game should be able to relentlessly press buttons for 30 seconds straight and keep you in block stun until you press the wrong motion or button. Give characters stamina ratings or something so they get tired. <br>Nobody should be able to tick jab you into block stun and then command grab you. Grappler characters should have to decide normals OR command grabs, but not a little tick that I block and then upsey daisy I go twirly bird…one or the other. <br>Nobody should be able to spam armor breaking moves that are SAFE ON BLOCK. Really Capcom? Really? <br><br>Or, make SFV. <br><br>Oh, and for crying out loud, fix Blanka. Holy cheap craptastic whiff monster made of green vapor, lies, and 9 volt batteries. To make up for the 87,905 whiffed attacks I’ve had reversal’d causing palpitations and high blood pressure (sorry, neighbors, for the random foul mouthed outbursts), make Blanka twice as big, move like Makoto minus the dash, and give him a blanka ball that works exactly like Dan’s fireball. Oh, and make all floors in the SF4 arenas grounded and all other characters wear rubber soles, just in case.<br>