I have noticed forward back kongos coming out WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more than ever imaginable in stick days. As the thumbstick gets worn thru use this comes out alot more than I remembered 
It only happens with punch button. Just make sure you are holding forward or at neutral and it corrects the problem.
Theres still a long time inputs are remembered. Thereâs a reason walk forward 720 is a thing, just neutral or forward isnât enough.
Hi guys, in the official rebalance thread Iâm trying to compile a buff list for every character - I think it would be more fun (and maybe helpfull) than everybody making one separatelly.
Right now, what I gave gouken is:
- b. Throw: deals no gray dmg
- Gohadouken: - reduce the start up with 1 frame (16)
- reduce the charge with 5 frames (63)
- cr. MP: +1 hitstun (+2)
- L Sengukoshoha: +10 dmg (100)
- EX Sengukoshoha: Increase speed so that the hitconfirm st cl mp cr hp ex palm is not spacing dependent at as long as the st cl mp hits
- Kongoshin (normal): +160 dmg (160)
- EX Kongoshin: Fix activation bug. EX counter has had occurences where the hit is absorbed, and activation flash and sound go off, but gouken just acts like the move whiffed
- Tatsumaki: Make all versions of tatsu lock on effect on the first hit
- cl MP: xtend hit box so that it doesnât whiff on opponent hit reel animation during certain jump ins.
This is what I thought and some sugestions from AmigoOne. if you guys want something else and can decide on a couple of buffs that would make Gouken stronger (without being broken/ out of his character archetype), I would gladly incorporate them into the buff list.
Just my thoughts on it:
This really doesnât matter in the big picture of Gouken. One change that would spice up backthrow for him is if it dealth 90 or so damage if no follow up was chosen to allow him to use his un/hardtoblockable setups. Backthrow still deals big damage compared to any other normal throw out there.
If this change happens more stuff of Gouken needs to change. At the very least close MK cause he now has an infinite in the corner vs the whole cast. Not considering that, it is risky to buff Goukens fireball in such a way as the thing is already fantastic.
Simple change, not to much in the whole of things, except every Honda player in the world probably hates you now. Other than that not incredibly needed.
Other than giving him +5 on counterhits I donât see this changing much. +2 hitstun or more is when things really start to change for the old man and runs in the teritory of being too good a buff, but just the +1 doesnât feel like it changes enough. Fel free to elaborate why, I could be missing something.
Again a simple buff, nothing much to argue beyond that it doesnât feel needed. All timy damage buffs help in the end though.
Every Gouken in the world cheers you on. This is one change I see no faults with and would help a lot. Buffing c.HP hitstun is another way to help this too and can easily be done without risking weird stuff happening to the move.
Tiny buff, helps, but not essential. Iâd rather see a reduction ind amage and a return to 2 counter heights, but three counter heights and more damage is also reasonable.
Every Balrog player in the world hates you right now. Also every Gouken that ever used the Armour cancel into ultra with Kongo. It can be avoided by just holding down the buttons pressed and well, if you were EX Kongoing, you werenât needing them for anything else soon anyway. The input glitch is more worrisome, besides, capcom seems to have no intention of removing the armour glitch anytime soon, theyâve left it in for everyone.
Once again, every Gouken everywhere cheers you on^^
Iâve never had this happen, itâs hitbox is pretty good. What jumpins does this happen in?
Final thoughts:
Some nice simple changes, no character would ever mind them, a pair of needed changes and some that really donât matter much(Seriously the backthrow grey damage is a change made for lower level play, to make it much less annoying and aggravating for lower skilled who sometimes already hate throws, itâs not much of an issue at higher level play).
well, Iâm not a Gouken player, so I gave back some nerfs he received, and some sugestions from a gouken player.
So, from my entire list you only agree with Ex Sengukoshoha and Tatsumaki changes.
What would you replace the rest with ? What do you think Gouken would need more instead ? (stuff that does not make him broken and that stays true to his archetype) ?
They can keep the +10 on lp palm, just add hard knock down to it.
Actually those 2 + kongoshin input glitch getting fixed would be the core of resolving the finesse of Gouken. To make him truly solid EX Tatsu hitting low would be a fantastic one, would make guesses with it more reliable and heâd have a rufus style 3 bar safeness. This sadly would make every Honda everywhere truly truly hate me. This kills the one moment of advantage Honda gets in the matchup. It also just makes him really strong and a force to be reackoned with.
If not giving the low hitting ex, things in my list on the first page are pretty decent and just focused on improving some of his moves to make them more reliable and useful, like Air tatsu having less recovery(10 for normal ones, 4 for EX like every shoto air tatsu(fyi all versions have 20 recovery right now)) and removing the lowleg projectile hitbox, then also making his standing MK and HK command normals, making them more reliable. They are the 2 best versions of these shoto staples(Air recently just showed off Ryuâs close MK applications) and Gouken has the fastest incarnations of them, but due to his fatness doesnât always get them at right timings or optimal distances. Command normals would improve his game greatly. They are less needed if EX hits low as his defense game is already incredible strong. While we are at it though, faster startup OR better hitbox on far MK is also interesting.
Close ST MP +5 on block.
I was the one that gave some input on the buffs that emanuelb posted.
The kongo activation bug hasnât occured to me before AE. You want to explain to me how its triggered?
In terms of st cl mp whiffing, I definitely had it happened to me multiple times during Ryu. Either j hp or j hk, the courchign reeling animation caused a whiff on st cl mp.
With EX tatsu hitting low, I think it would push Gouken to having one of the better wakeup games around. Shitty wakeup was one of his staples, we can go ahead and put out pipe dream buffs if you want lol.
I really donât see the problem or the potential overpowering of the character if, say, lk tatsu hit low. It is a 7 frame move for crying out loud. It can be stuffed, thrown, or baited easily. Low hitting EX tatsu FADC needs 3 bars. Hitting low still would only âsaveâ gouken if you were a miser with meterâŚwhich Iâm not lol. Even thenâŚEX tatsu FADC to ultra is balls for Gouken. Shit is wonky. Hardly overpoweredâŚI could see it even up the field a little but itâs not going to turn Goukenâs wake up into Ryuâs.
The character needs a new threat. Jabs to sweep or something. I also wish they would just return kongo to 2 zones. Really, really nerfs the move when you read an attack but have .2 seconds to decide if itâll hit you in the head or the gut or the footâŚI almost abandoned standing natural kongos except on easy jump ins. Maybe Iâm lazy, but Iâd prefer burning the meter for ex kongo and knowing itâll work (most of the time, barring the âit just absorbed a hit and fizzled outâ weirdness) then play Capcomâs evil guessing game anymore.
Sure. First off, itâs important to understand inouts and how DP shortcuts work(some people still think â:df:, :df:â can get you a DP, the shortcut doesnât quite work that way. A normal reverse DP ( Backwards Teleport, Jagga Kick etc) input consists of 3 input sections, written as 
, :d: , . Now any will notice that is not the traditional DP input, but for SF4 thatâs how reverse DPs are listed but each input is given the lenient attribute so the true input reads as: Any , Any:d: , Any . This opens up a lot of alternative ways of inputting the move and is why :db:,:d:/, :db: can yield a (reverse) DP input, but :db:, :db: .
Now for Gouken and Fei, their reverse DP(I havenât found any other character that has it, nor any forward DP that does)is listed differently. The first and 3rd input is the same as everyone else, but the second input reads as: Any :d:, Any :f:.(Total move input is: â ,( :d:, :f:) , â, just in case it started getting confusing).
So where as for any other DP input has only 3 inputs:)db:, :d: or :df:, all three count as a down input) that could qualify as the second input, we have 5 :)db:, :d:, :df:, :f: or presumably :uf:).
I hope thatâs clear enough on what is going on. Simply said,, :f:, yields a kongoshin input, making footsies with our P buttons potentially much harder. Though one could try to use it for quick kongos, i find the regular input plenty fast.
I dont think we are talking about the same bug. Or at least I donât get how the shortcuts make it so that kongo gets hit, make the activation hit splash and sound, but act like it whiffed.
Heâs talking about double kongo.
ahyeah thats a different glitch all together, its basically the armour glitch that any character with a special that has armour. If you complete the input of another move on the frame(might be more lenient than that, but not much) that the armour is triggered the armour will absorb a blow(iirc if its an ex with armour it actually wont cost a bar) and will then cancel the rest of the armoured move into another.
Balrog and fuerte are the 2 Ive seen use it the most and we can also cancel Kongo into Ultra in the same way.
Focus attack cant do this except into Taunt.
This glitch is along the lines of kara,one that isnât a nuisance and is actually useful for a large volume of characters.
Ok, I took a look in this thread and amended the buffs for Gouken. Wha tdo you think of this:
- L Sengukoshoha: +10 dmg (100)
- EX Sengukoshoha: Increase speed so that the hitconfirm st cl mp cr hp ex palm is not spacing dependent at as long as the st cl mp hits
- Kongoshin (normal): +160 dmg (160)
- Kongoshin: gouken kongo glitch removed, no more
:f: as a shortcut please. - Tatsumaki: Make all versions of tatsu lock on effect on the first hit
- cl MP: xtend hit box so that it doesnât whiff on opponent hit reel animation during certain jump ins.
- Air Tatsu:reduce the recovery with 6 frames for normal versions and with 8 for Ex (14-14-14-12)
- Ultra 1: reduce the start up with 2 frames (9)
- MK: reduce the start up with 1 frame (1)
If gouken players are ok with them, I can add it to the list. I think we have more chances to get something if we make a single list instead everybody making their own huge buff lists.
Btw, I like you pointed out those things regarding Honda, Iâm a Honda mainer myslef :D. I wouldnât want Gouken to eat Honda alive, we have enough problems with Sagat-Guile-Sim. Fortunatelly, Gouken is a rare breed.
I think itâs a very solid list that I wouldnât mind seeing become a reality. 
Allows counterhit MP to Ultra confirm, so very nice for us. Also 2 frames off will improve itâs antiair ability. I feel 8f would be good too, but only because Iâm annoyed it loses out to Mettsu Shoryu(and because I can be greedy, even when I am reasonable most of the time :3)
Just make sure you list it as far MK, close is already 3f startup ^^
Well I do try to consider as many matchups as possible when tweaking Gouken, fortunately he doesnât have that many good matchups(Honda- Sim - T Hawk - and Guile is getting there) so not too much to be considerate of :3
Silly enough, because 2 of them have command grabs the bad ness of the matchup dissipates once they do get in, just their getin tools work so badly vs GoukenâŚ
It doesnât get canceled into anything. It just whiffs.
It gets cancelled into another ex kongoshin.
From a priority stand point, I would rather have GF Throw changed to 6 frames of recovery instead of 12⌠vs. having Air Tatsu times decreased. I think both are needed⌠but decreasing the recovery time after GF Throw is something that I have wanted to see changed since Vanilla.
If we canât get tatsu to hit low, then we need something to off set it.
(if now low hitting normal tatsu)
-cr. fp should force stand---- then you could reliably land tatsu and if might even solve the reel back problem for EX Palm whiffs
-cr. lk, cr. mp should link
-far st. mp + 6 on hit
-cr. mp > mp palm should connect (I donât know what needs to happens here, but st .mp > mp palm works fine)
Iâd love to see lp palm have a limited juggle hard knock down effect, but I could still get what I want from the above so it wouldnât matter much.
I think by focusing on changes to give Gouken a true Vortex, it would offset most of the weaknesses he has a character.
The problem Iâve always had is, Gouken canât hit you with a low attack and keep hitting you⌠and after you GF Throw someone you have to resort to a trick to do any damn thing.
Not to mention, itâs a gamble to backthrow and tatsu someone near the corner⌠you lose all of your momentum b/c by the time you are recovered, they are already up. So instead, we give up all of that damage and do something else beside tatsu in the corner unless it koâs them.
But Iâm only 1 GoukenâŚ