lol, true, SRK is honestly the best. But Kongo has its advantages too - for one, it’s safe to buffer as you’re going from Back (which is also Block) to Down Back, which is also Block. So you can both block, and counter - provided ya have the eye of the tiger!!!
I understand what you’re going through sometimes, and it literally is an up-hill battle to break free from the opponent sometimes.
But you know what? I play Hawk too, and I think he has it worse, when he has to make his way in on say Sagat.
I’d say that Hawk has a tougher time getting in, than Gouken has getting out.
Think about that.
Neutral jump OVER A FIREBALL from mid-close distance, and pull HK Tatsu - that’s a decent setup.
Against slow characters like Zangief, it’s perfectly viable to jump out of the corner and escape with Air Tatsu. Against faster characters - not as much…
3 frame jab is what he needs. Im tired of getting thrown.
And yeah, like Ive been saying, all we need is for tatsu to hit crouchers. Give the reg tatsu a bit of invincibilty or make them not throwable but keep the slow startup. That’ll give us a decent reversal option and be able to fadc if we choose and balance Gouken out. Even if they kept ex the same and made the reg fixed tatsus hit crouchers I would still be good with that.
i would like to see the close mk get more range so we can punish a lot of stuff, 3 fr jab i wouldn’t mind it, but if the problem is getting blown at throw i should say that he needs his 3 fr back throw (i mean it used to be that way back in vanilla, wasn’t it??)… and i still don’t get it how people don’t want the tatsu fix?? like whats going on here, im not asking for a 3 frame tatsu, i just want more invincibility and able to hit low (look at c.viper shoryu for example, its 7 fr and has all the invincibility in the planet) and for kongo the issue here is that some moves are so ridiculous (for example ryu’s cr lp doesn’t hit on lp kongo, just mp, but his cr mp, can be triggered on both!!! and i’m like really??) like fix that and more invincibility fr on all his palms and more movement on his lp palm
You guys are missing the point. Yes I want cl.st.mk to become his standard mk…not a command normal at all. Make the wannabe-Bison far mk a command normal. But 3 frame cr.lk would help against throws far better than a 3 frame jab. Cr.mk is only 4 frames and it’s still not great for cr. teching. So with a 3 frame standing normal and a 3 frame crouching normal (that has a bit of distance to it also), Gouken will become harder to throw. He also becomes better at poking the opponent out of that fuzzy “oh fuck” range.
And C.Viper is ambiguous as all hell, has a number of gifted wake up options and can do a shit ton of damage in a short amount of time. Guy is ambiguous as hell also and he can poke and poke and poke, he can command grab you from the air OR flip grab you on the ground (with no recovery on whiff) OR elbow you OR empty over you and then grab/poke at you for almost free unless you guess right, and he has one of the hardest reversals in the game to get around. Blanka, DeeJay, Yun, Shotos, Cammy, GEIF!..almost every single character has a way out of wake up pressure that takes very little guesswork. Our two invincible options BOTH put us right next to the opponent, so if we guessed wrong or they were prepared, we go nap nap again and have to guess…AGAIN. Yes, CAPCOM gave us 2, not 1, but 2 invincible wake up options and both of them ARE FUCKING HUGE RISKS! C’mon. Gouken spends the entire match worrying about whether this shit or that shit will hit, because if it doesn’t, he gets punished. Period. So sick and tired of the free pressure these people enjoy and then on top of that the easy mode wake up game. Of course we’ve trained and trained how to beat these wake up options and most of the time, the best one is just to fucking block them. There’s no excuse for it. I especially like seeing how outdated Gouken is when someone like Cammy can get at you, poke poke footsie poke meow kitty rawr, and then JUST BACK DASH AWAY. So now I go chasing the pussy (lol) and player two knows it so I eat cannon tooth or spiral nut punch or whatever stupid ass thing reversal that character has and then taunts. Or I can sit there, watch Back Dashy McTits get away with smacking my arms yet again, and try to counter the next attempt to close in. Now watch some jack hammer come in here and tell me I don’t know how to play Gouken.
My opinion may not mean much to most of y’all but I agree. It’s getting really old having to worry about shit that seemingly no one else has to worry about. Yeah I know Gouken is all about self-discipline and all that, but in the context of this current game, it’s simply not enough. He needs reliable ways to make the opponent respect his capabilities. If you’re godlike, you can do that through proper play. If you’re like me, where lag eats inputs, causes delays in timing, and seemingly makes easy stuff impossible to punish, he simply needs more. I know I need to work on my game, but a little equalization would make me so happy.
I can deal with everything else. The Palms lack of priority…fine. Lack of high damage off his jabs…fine. Most of his normals being short range… fine. Can they atleast let him not be the easiest thrown character in the game. Every big body character in the game has great throw range or a command throw or both. This is to deter small fast characters from wanting to be close to them. I know it will never happen cause it sounds too much like the right thing to do.
Its just common sense stuff. It makes sense for characters like Ibuki or Cammy to have weak beatable specials cause they have an above average poking game. Why then would a character like Gouken cannot open someone up as easily as they can have beatable low damage specials?
I mean I get it with the focus attack he can get damage and get off his combos but a properly built character should NEVER have to rely a extra in a game to function.
hey y’all, I think I agree that we should just let EX Tatsu be available after EX Flip.
Let’s!
EX Flip can cancel to Air EX Tatsu
HP Kongo counters all airborne attacks, MP Kongo covers both current MP- and HP Kongo, and LP Kongo remains the same but gets extra active space upwards to better counter say Akuma’s cr. MP (!!!)
Denjin gets its recovery time halved (let’s be safe for once, y’all!), and it gets more RELAXED AND COMFORTABLE to speed up
Regular Tatsu never allows quick-rise, and also combos better
I’d really like for kongo to go back to 2 zones, where the middle overlaps. So if you guess low or high and the move is medium, it hits. People will start to cry that it will be OP but seing what tools the other chars have i think it’s just fair.
yeah, two zones would make kongo much more viable… and honestly ex kongo (only ex) should additionally counter throws during the active counter frames, but be grabable during recovery as normal. would help gouken a lot during wake up, strenghten os throw tech ex kongo, but can still be baited and punished. would not change the overall game and not change tiers, but give gouken a bit better chances during vortex set ups.
But Kongo has its advantages too - for one, it’s safe to buffer as you’re going from Back (which is also Block) to Down Back, which is also Block. So you can both block, and counter - provided ya have the eye of the tiger!!!
