Invincibility in startup of non ex tats, ex stays the same…? Thoughts…
Wouldn’t be a bad idea considering 7+ frame start ups… But there still seem to be folk against it even though that’s what they are giving EVERYBODY. I don’t mind people having good reversals… I just want one too.
Still fearful… They like to just tweak other characters and utterly change everything about Gouken…
I’m really bu
I saw into infiltration’s mind that match when he was down 2 to nothing the thought popped up Gouken vs Akuma. Then out of nowhere a black woman popped into his mind and said “Aint nobody got time for that” …Right…Akuma it is then.
I love the characters from Fatal Fury 3 and Real Bout 1 and 2 really fun games. I use to have travel to some absurd places to play them but it was good times when i did. As you can see I’m SNK fanboy. I was very proud at the crowd that watch the KOF finals. If only some could find a way to resurrect Samurai Shodown from the dead.
But they did! With Samurai Shodown Sen!!! It’s even in 3D!!
I feel your pain for real though…
Wouldn’t matter if it still dropped people and only hit high.
It won’t be viable for wakeup reversal because it hits high. It would still be prone to dropping everytime someone doesn’t jump in at that perfect angle. You lose the ability to trade into Ultra, as rare as that may be.
I still do not think they are going to “fix” Gouken.
It would be nice to not have reversals break his counter, both air and ground. It would be REALLY nice to get counters back to just high and low so that, you know, you weren’t guessing which counter to use even when they do a jump in attack, never mind if they empty jump.
EX Tatsu absolutely needs to hit low, it’s really not much to ask that we can wake up safely by using three bars.
Palm really needs to keep projectile invincibility until recovery frames.
HP Palm should be distance controllable by holding down the HP button (tap goes current distance, hold goes old distance).
Something needs to be done with regular tatsu, it’s nothing but a combo item at this point for the most part.
EX Palm should always land in a combo, speed it up or whatever you have to do. It’s not like we have two hit fireballs to engage in fireball wars, shouldn’t this be our answer? (palm in general)
I hesitate to say c.mp should combo into fireball cause no matter how you make that happen it’s going to open up a lot of stuff that wasn’t there before. On the other hand it really sucks to have someone constantly crumple you everytime they block a c.mp and you follow with a fireball.
I still say one of the biggest changes you can make it make cl.st.mk a command normal.
I mean for F sake, just clean up the damn character.
Oh, and I mean, now that Dhalsim is getting two hit normals and we still have to use a god damn bar to break a focus in our face, can I get a bone?
Maybe it should tech reversals…kongos.
With tatsus maybe we should have 3 dif heights…
But as far as invincibility …
as wakeup pre reversal timing it would work if timed it could counter srks similar to nj hp, dj back hk and Dj back lp’s respectively and dj lk when setup correctly.
jeez Takin, i only ever understand 50% of your posts, and even then they make no fucking sense… I know theres some knowledge in there, i’d just like to know what it is
Shoulda quoted reipin I guess. I was saying it would work against srks (invincible normal tatsu)with startup frames being 7 since it hits hi, or at least to me seems plausible that it would clip the top of say lp srk and perhaps mp srks on wakeup , similar to the way allthe attacks I mentioned djhk, njhp, djlk, djback lp(vs wakeup). At this point timing regular reversal timing is where reipin thought it wouldn’t work(i feel it may), but may have to be done even a frame or two earlier. I gues it takes some imagination.
I’m not sure what you are talking about with timing wake up.
I know what you are talking about, you are saying IF someone did a lp/mp SRK on your wake up and you did normal tatsu, you would beat them cause your invin frames lasted longer (so long as invin goes into our active, so 8 invin frame on lk tatsu), but how often does that come up? The odds are you still go flying off into space.
Make EX tatsu hit low and change counters back to two areas. You will have counters to deal with wake up attacks, and EX tatsu to hit low and get out of jail with 2 more bars. It’s a vast improvement on his wake up without giving him a shoto type wake up.
There really should be no god damn reason you use a HP counter and a jump attack lands. They need to retool counters to be OFF of the focus system. Just making our parry/counter come off that system alone would allow for mind games to open people up every time you got a hard knockdown. You’d really have to respect that I could parry your wake up attack in the air, throw you, or continue pressure.
I totally agree. They need totally dis-attach our parry from the focus system. Juri? Dudley? Freaking Juri nor Dudley have zones and Juri doesnt even take grey damage, thats ridiculous. Granted we can link super and fadc but still, its too easy to counter our counter to begin with. A throw? Its not like, you know a counter is coming so you throw. Throws, ticks throws are already apart of the close meta game which means that when we kongo and get thrown, they were ALREADY going to throw. They didnt read it and counter our kongo. Freaking bullshit man. Its too easily defeated to make it viable unless you really really really have a handle on what your opponent is going to do.
And even then I still say change it. If they’re gonna make it throwable like it is now they need to make it not break on reversal. I personally think it would be a bit too strong so they should lower the active frames of the hittable kongo from 14 to 9-10 with the same 18 frames of recovery. Kongo would be muthafuckin kongo then. No more mashing DP on wakeup for fear of a read and getting kongo’d BUT…you can wake up throw still and beat it.
PS - I dont mind the zones. You see a jump in, hp kongo, Its pretty simple. You KNOW when safe jumps are coming, mp kongo. The only gripe I have with the zones is on moves like Guys run into overhead kick. Point blank you have to kongo hp even though it appears to hit you in the face. If he does it at a distance you have to mp it. It seems silly to HAVE to use ex. Or Cammy’s safe dj crossup lk. You cannot distinguish between the cross up dj.lk and a fake crossup empty jump into low. Its impossible, I dont care who you are. This is more of a Cammy being OP issue though…
Zones matter on way more than just a safe jump. Throw a fireball and someone jumps it, guess if they will attack normal or wait to hit the last second…
If you are going to have three buttons, you need to do HP all air attacks. Period. Middle punch, upper body, LP, lower body. Better yet, do HP from knees up, LP, from chest down, MP counter throws.
Hmmmm, not a bad idea. But if you’re gonna do that then you have to keep tatsu the way it is now and not hit crouchers. If this is on the table that means we would have 3 very strong reversals in mp kongo for throws, and ex tatsu thats invincible and hits ANY button they press and ex kongo that hits any button they press as well. Are you suggesting that we make the third zone to counter throws and take away ex kongo altogther? We cant have a kongo option that counters throws, one that counters any attack AND and ex tatsu that invincible and hits all. Thats just too powerful.
hey man, that is an excellent idea!
Let HP Kongo always counter jumping attacks, (including command overheads like Viper’s F+MP, fellas??), and let LP Kongo remain (but also add some extra “area” upwards towards MP Kongo area), and, let MP Kongo cover both current MP- and HP Kongo.
Fellas, I think we solved the case.
As for other improvements, I’m against low-hitting Tatsu. 
However, no kicks of Tatsu should ever allow quick-rise. 
And it would certainly be wonderful if each initial kick of the regular Tatsus vacuumed the opponent just a little bit closer.
Denjin should have half of its recovery! And it should be more relaxed to speed up…
LP Palm should have much better range and still be safe.
Flip Parry should have better recovery - pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase… :[
All tatsu’s should hit low and be immune to throws.
mp, hp, and EX Palm should be throw invincible during start up.
Everybody either has a gtfo move, teleport, or an EX that covers everything that is safe to do. We need one too. Lol
we’ve got something better than SRK
we’ve got
(on our wake-up)
BLOCK/ NEUTRAL JUMP TO PAIN-TRAIN/ EX KONGO
seriously bro
while it would be sweet if EX Kongoshin didn’t armor-break to stuff like Akuma’s Flip Palm, but I think that would overpower the character design honestly…
I know it’s frustrating to get totally locked down and have 20/80 odds in your opponent’s favor when you want to break out, but the fact of the matter is that we do have Kongoshin that is 1-frame and beats ALMOST EVERYTHING, and it can be cancelled to Super etc, and, we have the best BY FAR fireballs (admittedly non-EX fireballs), we have a great super that can work in unison with our fireballs for something FANTASTIC, and we have back-throw, jumping MP->Tatsu, and all that shit!
I think some match-ups are awful, like Guy who has an easy way in, plus, he’s all about rush-down WHILE BEING SAFE, and that’s a huge problem for us…
but the idea is that we have the upper hand in OTHER situations. But some of our match-ups are indeed bad, boring and flat out unfair.
Rather than just make flip parry have better recovery (I think it’s actually the same as Akuma’s flip palm, except when he does the palm he doesn’t pause in the air like Gouken does), I’d rather see it changed so that if the armor is triggered it always puts Gouken at an advantage. Something such as, if the armor is triggered Gouken drops straight down quickly, and has 0 recovery frames after landing.
MEH… nothing is better than srk type move on this game. It covers all your bases if you have 2 bars.
Block then neutral jump can get you punished if they frame trap you. It’s all good if it’s a true block string, but anything that leaves a gap you are screwed not including it takes 4 frames to even leave the ground after you’ve put the input for jump.
I understand people want the game balanced etc… but everybody has a move that beats throw, a safe reversal, teleport, or a crazy backdash that’s hard to punish.
Kongo is good, but it’s still a guess move that loses to throw.
Goukens fireball is loses some of it’s advantages when the other person has EX. I almost never throw fireballs at Ryu and Sagat when they have EX not unless I’m baiting plasma.
We get Super once a match and since we have to use it for EX Kongo, EX Palm, EX Tatsu, and EX Flip… I rarely EX Hado… but I rarely get a chance to use super b/c I end up using it for other stuff. Super is a beast though… it’s just hard for me to hoard all of that meter when I can use it in other ways and still get 350-500 damage all the while keeping somebody on their back.
There are a few unfair matches… but it’s only when we are on defense. Offensively, there are only a couple of match ups that you can’t pressure for free once you’ve scored the first knock down.
There are some things that I’d like to see Gouken get offensively… but if his only buff was tatsu hitting low and locking with some invincibility frames in the beginning I’d have all I need. They can keep the start ups the same as far as I care.
I just get a little tired of having NO offensive reversal aside a 7 frame EX Tatsu that whiffs crouchers and has a -1000 recovery. You can’t even wake up as mash EX Palm… which is even more retarded b/c the invincibility isn’t even on the 1st frame AND you can throw him out of it.
If you play the Gouken mirror, all you have to do meaty lp palm his wake up if he doesn’t have meter and Gouken can only block or backdash. That shit is wack.
I would really like for air Tatsu to have less recovery. It’s rather silly that all of the other shotos can throw out those moves (and others) all willy-nilly and still be on the offensive once the move ends, but we have to be extremely reserved for the most part.