I think the most interesting and tier-changing changes will never, ever happen.
Capcom has no interest in allowing a popular character to get bottom tier, so it’ll keep the less popular characters, like gouken, thawk, and hakan, down on the floor.
that would be terrible news.
the more i keep playing the more clearly i see (or want to see) that gouken should always have had a better ex fireball
So here’s the thing. This would be awesome:
lp+mp = 2 horizontal fireballs
lp+hp = what we have now
mp+hp = mp and hp fireballs
but it won’t help our bad matchups.
what we need for our bad matchups is a non-armour-breakable reversal or an escape option.
The problem with gouken is that once they are in… they are in. We can’t get out without an extremely good guess or giving up like 300-400 damage.
flip canceling into tatsu could work.
or maybe kongo getting armor break invincibility on reversal.
that would round out the character, but it won’t happen.
Akuma got a new EX air fireball on EX Demon fall, I don’t see why we can’t get like an EX air Tatus on EX Gouken fall. Akuma already have tons of tools to work with, he really didn’t need that EX air fireball thing except on very rare situation, but we can totally use a two bar full screen escape.
Yeah, 2 bars is pretty expensive to escape… or you can have a tatsu > fadc that works on standing and crouching 
What system changes are you guys looking forward to?
-Re-Match Button for 2 player endless lobbies
-Online Training Mode - Endless Lobby in Training room (2 can play-up to 6 can watch)
-Changes to ALL SRK Moves (except Supers/Ultras)
-lp - 4 Frame Start Up FADCable
-mp - 4 Frame Start Up FADCable
-hp - 3 Frame Start Up **NON **FADCable (see Ryu)
-EX - 3 Frame Start Up FADCable
This would take away some mashing and give other characters chances to better mix up SRK characters from jump in… and if you get the free FADC to Ultra… it will be a result of a good read or you had to spend 3 EX Bars to do it, if they tried to safe jump.
Attacks -3 can be punished per jab -srk still… and you still can beat safe jumps with a 3 frame start up srk, but it’s just not FADCable into a free Ultra.
Per safe jumps/empty… You’d kind of make srk mashers decide which srk option much like we would Kongo… they just couldn’t mash it… we’ll they could but…
I’d like it so if your in a 2 player endless lobby - no matter who wins or loses you both stay on the same side as always.
I’ll occasionally look at my opponents super or ultra meter thinking it’s my own, which usually results in a crapped out Tatsu or complete ultra failure.
yeah… that’ some bs… the way it’s set up now, it gives the 1p player control of everything… Good thing, it’s only an issue online though.
Destroy all lag!
If you join a lobby and beat the living shit out of someone, they should have to seek administrator approval before kicking you out.
All armor breaking moves except Gouken’s are preceded by a loud fart noise and screen freeze.
Juri’s new costume is flesh.
All people with creampuff or Souchan in their name are permanently banned from playing any character but Twelve.
I think this could be possible->A trend ticker on the lobbies screen that shows lobbies where people are on sick streaks, so that I can join as a spectator or player if there’s room.
Fix all stupid shit that only works on one side in a certain direction if you hit the third pixel before launching the opponent…blah blah
I can’t wait for the “system change requests” week on unity.
- make “avoid this player” actually mean something. If I’m hosting a session, I don’t want to have to kick the trashtalking adolescent douchenozzles. They shouldn’t even see my session as joinable.
- if you have a 2bar connection with anybody in a session, you should not be able to join it without hoster’s permission.
- the “ok” screen should show a player’s prefer/avoid ratio.
- I want a way to mute people mid-match, I have no interest in hearing the game echo from people who have no idea that they have a mic running.
- put in a visual indication of the current ping/lag to the other player. I’m sick and tired of guessing during the match, and of seeing some newb posting videos of beating me with a stupid network situation that’s not apparent on youtube.
that’s it for the anti-douchenozzle technology.
as for things on the more positive side…
- end the splitting of the player base.
1a) combine hosting and searching for ranked/endless so it’s just a preference for one of the other rather than a hard line.
1b) handle match searching on the serverside, so there’s no hosting/searching dichotomy for the player. everybody should just be in a cloud of “wanting to play”. - friends list shouldn’t be the only “presence” indicator. It’d be cool if we could know when people are on who are good with our main character or other similar
FADC should require just one direction input Seriously…!
and getting to select original or alternative music from the online player lobby, would’ve been nice…
Make it Karin and we have a deal :3
You can short cut it so it only requires one input, even though you have to be pretty fast after using it with tatsu b/c you cross under. So you either have to complete your motion in front (FAST), or you can reverse the second QCF as QCB when you cross under and catch them on the other side.
If Tatsu FADC popped the opponent further away, it would be a lot easier… I’m not sure how in the hell you fix that though.
Perhaps they could fix it by making the initial tatsu hit pop them farther, but have the second hit snap them back into place.
I would like to be able to add a search filters, like only showing rooms with green or yellow bars, or making rooms that ONLY allow green connections.
That and being able to see ALL rooms in a scrollable list (open or full (include room status)) so I don’t have to keep hitting “refresh” to find a certain room and then not find it anymore.
There’s been a lot of conflict over Adon nerfs. (Yeah I saw your posts on the Adon Balance thread Iam :P)
I took the liberty of implementing an non-Armour Breaking 2 hit Jaguar Kick - but results were too drastic, still being able to FADC out of the 2nd hit and the pressure.
Although during my time modding this mod I discovered it’s actually got 2 hitboxes, one for early /mid Jag and one for late in the Jaguar Kick.
By removing the Armour Breaking off the 1st hitbox and altering the frames of them I got a pretty nice result.
Which is, if spaced correctly the move is still armour breaking, if not, it becomes Focus-able/Parry-able.
Your Thoughts?
I think that’s a pretty good compromise… It reminds me of a reverse chicken wing where the armor is on the back of the attack rather than the front… So at close range, he has to do something else…
You know I don’t deal well with people talking at me crazy… I never start it, but i will ride Til the end.
Okay toof , one with gflip cancel to ex tatsu pre and post zenith, cancel to normals so u could get expalm>fadc>exflip>ambig mk on wakeup.
Also,
Exflip>j.mp on an opponents wakeup or exflip>j.mp>air tatsu…
TowArds corner: Exflip>parry pre zenith>fadc(pursuit property+juggle state)quick landing>lpalm>denjin
Charged faster hadous, fake fireball by doing 2nd fb motion while pressing additional button while charging the first one.
Slow rising fb’s which when placed float slowly and dissolve while becoming a quicksand of hitstun.
All fatser normAls gouken with only a 4 frame sweep , charged faster fbs and double fbs and srk better than Oni’s, double walk speed fadc>Kongo on single hit moves cost 1 bar, ex flips half bar( no other flip kicks) also hits crouchers, and 3 frAme tatsus all buttons all can juggle. 2 speed denjin(Rose lp hado speed and max speed) max speed like electrcity slow speed like normal denjin. And buffed gflip throw acts like giefs clothesline leaving opponent in juggle state , where we land first and can follow w u1 and u2 respectively .
One thing ive thought about recently is making Goukens air parry work like Bisons Stomp follow ups.
Basically if you GF and parry with EX you get to absorb 2 hits instead of 1 at the cost of a bar… Or the EX Parry is armor invincible or something… Maybe both… Just a thought.
The other creative / yet off the wall idea was…
(assuming they fix the issues with tatsu hitting low and locking so people don’t fall out of it or if they do they are in hard knock down)
qcb - lk tatsu leave as is
qcb- replace with hard kick tatsu w 10 frame start up (remove mk tatsu)
qcb- hk - non FADCable on block srk like ONI currently has… MP or HP version (my only concern for this, is that it would be extremely hard to jump in on Gouken after he’s thrown a fireball) (thus the kongo nerf…)
Adjust damages as needed…
… this is what happens when you have too much free time at work…
Hi guys, I searched capcom unity threads and tried to compile a buff list for most characters, based on the sugestions posted there.
The idea is - stronger characters will receive less buffs, weaker ones more, and top tiers mostly nothing.
I will post the entire buff list on capcom unity on week 5.
This is Gouken’s list:
Gouken
- EX Sengukoshoha: Increase speed so that the hitconfirm st cl mp cr hp ex palm is not spacing dependent at as long as the st cl mp hits
- Kongoshin: gouken kongo glitch removed, no more as a shortcut please.
- not lose to non-armor breaking attacks
- Tatsumaki: Make all versions of tatsu lock on effect on the first hit
- far st MK: add 1 more active frame (3); improve the hitbox
- Demon Flip Parry: ground recovery similar to that of Akuma’s demon flip palm.
- cr LK: reduce the start up by 1 frame (4)
- Ultra 1: reduce the start up by 2 frames (9); increase the hitbox
- Air Tatsu: reduce the landing recovery with 6 frames for normal versions and with 8 for Ex (14-14-14-12)
- Kongoshin (normal): +30 dmg (180)
- cr LP: +10 dmg (30)
- far LP: +10 dmg (40)
- cl MK: +10 dmg (80)
- far MK: +10 dmg (85)
- cr MK: + 10 dmg (80)
- Senkugoshoha: + 30 dmg for L, +20 dmg for M and H versions (120-140-150)
Explanations:
[details=Spoiler]
- Ex Sengukoshoha: This move still misses when you perform cr. fp combos.
- Kongoshin: This bug can cause counter to come out at very in oppurtune times during footsies as well as when crossed up. Please remove forward as a valid 2nd input for kongoshin.
Should not LOSE to non-armor breaking attacks / (Blankas 2 hit knee, Zangiefs Green Hand, and Bison’s EX Headstomp follow ups beats this.) - Tatsumaki: Gouken’s tatsu is, in most situations, a high risk, low reward move. The amount of frames of recovery on this move is enormous, and can even be punished on -hit- in many situations. It typically wiffs on crouching opponents, and opponents fall out of the move quite frequently. All of these traits combine to make it a very high risk move, with the reward generally not being worth it.
In previous balance adjustments, EX tatsu was changed to “lock” the opponent in. This is something that the other versions of tatsu also need in order to help alleviate the enormous risk performing this move entails. This move is already a very difficult move to land, and the penalty for messing it up is huge; it should not allow opponents to fall out of it at any point if the first hit successfully connects. - far st Mk: slightly buff hit box and active frames of FAR.MK to lessen trades when used as far anti air (e.g. opponent jumps HADO or dive kicks)
- Demon Flip Parry: This move should be made to have ground recovery similar to that of Akuma’s demon flip palm. As it is not an attack, it should not leave Gouken at a disadvantage, and this would also help improve Gouken’s response time after successfully parrying an attack.
- cr Lk: Beginning users will need this to defend using cr.tech, and Cr.tech lk is beaten TOO EASILY against the ENTIRE STAFF especially characters with 3f cr moves. Cr.lk would be a better tool for poking, and for strings
- Ultra 1: Finally Ultra 1, Shin Shoryuken has fallien to the wayside as Denjin has just so many uses. Making this move indeed a true Shoryuken in use could give more matchups to consider it as a viable tool. Increasing the hitbox like Ryu’s Ultra 2 and quickening the startup could make it a far more reliable anti air.
- Air Tatsu: For Air Tatsumaki, they could do with having their recovery boosted to a level similar to other air tatsus as they don’t have the ability to aid with crossup jumpins. Gouken would still be punishable but have more of a chance of using these rarely seen moves.
- Damage buffs: I understand certain design choices made about Gouken, and I both like and agree with them.
- Gouken cannot link his light attacks. This prevents him from doing a light string into a special move. This dramatically separates him from most other cast members.
- Gouken’s pokes do not combo into his fireball. Unlike Ryu, Ken, Akuma, Sagat, Oni, and even Dan, Gouken cannot connect his fireball off of long range cancellable pokes, and the blocked versions are not true blockstrings. This, combined with a lack of an instant two-hit fireball, makes it very easy for Gouken’s opponent to get through his fireball pressure with focus. Gouken clearly is not designed to pressure the opponent with a crouching normal into fireball, like many other fireball users can do.
- Gouken has no meterless catch-all reversal, like anyone with a shoryuken-style move has.
The lack of tools like these funnels the emphasis of Gouken’s strengths into his damage; which is a concept I enjoy about the character. The idea of “Fewer options, more damage” is a good one for producing a unique character, but Gouken obviously needs some help. And the number one way to do that, I think, will be to improve that which is already Gouken’s forte; his damage.
This requires some explanation, as it sounds like I am suggesting boosting his damage all around; I am not. Gouken’s optimal damage combos should not be improved; they do enough damage as it is. Gouken’s damage could be improved in other areas, however, and help strengthen his design as a character who has fewer options and tools at his disposal than the average character, but who deals more damage than normal as well.
To that end, normals or specials involved in his BnB and optimal damage combos should not be improved in damage.
nj.hp > cl.hp > ex.palm > dash forward > hk.tatsu is his major BnB, and deals 455 damage. This is a lot, and does not need to be improved under any circumstances.
Other moves, however, could be increased in damage. I will go over them each individually and explain why I think they should be improved. - Senkugoshoha: is Gouken’s armor breaking charge move. When used with strict timing, it goes through projectiles; doing this is definitely not a no-brainer and requires careful thought and precision. It is -6 on block. I think mechanics-wise, this is a very cool move.
His Senkugoshoha currently deals 90, 120, 130, and 150 damage, respectively. I would recommend upping the non-ex versions by 30 for L and by 20 for M,H, and leave the EX version as it is. This would give the move more punch when successfully used to get around fireballs, and in his general punishes. The main reason I would improve the LP version is Gouken cannot hit confirm into any special from multiple light attacks, and I think it should be a little more rewarding when Gouken takes the risk of cancelling into this from a single light attack without confirmation. - Kongoshin: is Gouken’s counter move. It has absorption properties, which means it cannot counter armor breaking moves. Gouken must choose which of three zones he is countering attacks in. Kongoshin is, frankly, one of my favorite moves, but I think it needs considerable adjustment, in both its boxes and its damage. Kongoshin currently does 150 damage, regardless of which version. I think this needs to be increased, as it is a move in which Gouken is completely dependent on the opponent’s choice of action. 100% of the time, Gouken landing this move is due to the opponent’s decisions, not Gouken’s. As such, I think the non-ex versions should deal 180 damage. The EX version, which covers Gouken’s whole body, should remain at 150 damage.
Additionally, and this is very important, Kongoshin should be incapable of scoring counterhits. In addition to this sounding very strange on what is already a “counter” move, counterhits with this move would do too much damage. Kongoshin should be stronger than it currently is, but it should not have the potential to deal 225 damage on counterhit. - Normals: Gouken’s normal attacks have the damage of an average character. He does not, for example, have fierce attacks that deal 140 damage, like Zangief, Hawk, or Honda. I think it is important that Gouken’s fierce attacks remain as they are, as improving them would raise the damage on his optimal combos too much.
I do think, however, that Gouken’s light and medium attacks could use a damage boost. This would allow Gouken to get a little more damage out of 2 in 1’s and quick punishes, and further cement him as a heavier damage dealer than the average cast member.
The reason I feel the light attacks should be increased in damage is they cannot, when chained, lead to specials, because they are all only +3 on hit with 4 frame startups. These moves cannot be linked, and thus no specials or other extra damage can come from them. This change would increase the damage of Gouken’s jab strings, which do not lead to anything else and have no utility.
One reason I think these particular normals should be improved is (with the exception of cr.lp) they do not link into or out of any other normal, do not combo into fireball, and as such they would not increase the damage of his heavier combos. This would raise the damage of his minor punishes and 2 in 1’s which would improve upon the character’s strength as a damage dealer with fewer tools and options than average. [/details]
Would you agree with this ? anything broken/ too strong ?
@emanuel
the most requested and important ones are missing!!!
CR.MP x LP HADO comboes by increasing hit/block stun of CR.MP by 3 frames
more range on LP Rush Punch (not necessarily more damage)
Kongo: change from three to two zone concept
EX Tatsu hits crouchers
improved range on backdash
etc…
I appreciate your work, but I think your list does not represent the priorites. Some buffs are just unrealistic (e.g. counter not broken by armor break and reversal).
In addition the Gouken community can not agree on the main buffs… I have strong doubts on that list, that it properly represents the need of Gouken buffs.