So is it
lp + lk + fierce
or
lp + lk ~ fierce
?
it’d have to be the fierce first I think, then throw.
so fierce ~ lp+lk with whack timing so you don’t get thrown out of the startup of your fierce punch
I completely agree that rufus is abel’s worst matchup. If rufus get’s on top of you shit seems so helpless, that throw option select sounds pretty big though… time to head to the training room
Nice info on the gief matchup combo - made for some interesting reading there.
The input for this OS against the dive kick, is the timing similar to plinking, between the s.fp ~ lk + lp?
I’m thinking a delayed fierce from rufus would hit the OS, but other than that it sounds pretty good.
Ed ma was telling me that he also believes rufus is abels hardest matchup, but I really don’t see it. Maybe its because I don’t really play many good rufus players. Abel can still mindfuck rufus pretty hard though.
Last batch of vids from me (12 vids):
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=DA78949AA1BB9932
The first two vids: abel vs gouki chun gouki (against one player)
Then he ragequit/got dced(off camera, during a match against his sim)
The rest of the vids: Fought a ryu, he won 7-3, then switched to sagat which I beat twice (but his sagat aint as good as his ryu i guess)
Any feedbacks/analysis are appreciated.
Some analysis of my own:
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I think I still do random jump-ins and rolls (the kinds where I dont even know why I did it, bad habits die hard…) Though I admit some of the rolls I made was after reading his style of play for example his habit of throwing fireball at a certain distance so I roll/jump to get a combo/TT in, but yeah generally its still not a very good thing since I know for sure if the Ryu is really good, I wouldnt be able to do all of that jumps/rolls bs.
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Missed quite a few combos that could’ve changed the turn out of events (like cr.hp roll fs - missed the roll wtf).
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I totally forgot and didnt use the cr.lp/cr.lk st.hp combos, I used to apply them in matches a lot back then… but after watching the vids I took, its like i totally forgot they existed.
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Vs gouki: tried baiting s.hk to stuff with s.lp(worked but didnt follow up)… as someone said they prefer s.mp, i say s.lp is better since its faster and if you messed up chances for you to block the incoming attack is better than getting hit, and cant combo into f.mk on CH neither.
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Vs sagat: He wasnt so good and did some stuff that made me go “why the hell did he do that??”… Dont think anything much can be learned from them.
Dive kicks in general are a huge problem for Abel. You can’t reversal out of the situation like you might occasionally do with other characters, and it’s not at all easy to react to them consistently. Hell, even if you can react, there’s a significant portion of the screen where you don’t have anything to counter them anyways.
When you couple the dive kicks with Rufus’ easy damage and large health pool, you have a character that can be just as much of a problem on wakeup as Akuma or Cammy, with the health to take a risk every now and then.
Unfortunately, i’ve had very little practice with good Rufus players, so my gameplan has pretty much been:
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Work for a knockdown before he gets meter.
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When he gets meter, annoy him by running away.
Focusing on trying to evade him has gotten me some easy punished when they overextended themselves, but i’m sure the mileage on this would be very poor against the good ones. Hell, the best Rufus i’ve played to date was Bryant the Tyrant back when he actually used him, and while it got me a perfect in the first round, it didn’t really matter in the next two.
I’m thinking maybe when he has meter but not enough meter to fadc an ex messiah, Id do stuff on his wakeup like roll TT or meaty stuff, and by the time he has 3 meter, chances for me to bait an ex messiah is higher since ive conditioned him with my previous oki and he has enough meter to fadc an ex messiah (to safety/ into ultra or whatever, when he has one or two meter i dont mind eating one or two ex messiah on purpose to condition them for a possible later punish… but yeah, dive kick pressure is hell.
This only works against LP SPD and MP SPD. HP SPD and EX SPD are fast enough for Gief to block again, and the animation of the close 360K is really fast and almost impossible to distinguish it from the SPD’s.
So I believe it is a pretty unconsistant solution to a whiffed SPD :wonder:
all of gief command throws have a long enough recovery for you to whiff punish them with ultra. if the ultra’s blocked, its probably because you’re not quick enough… you’re already buffering the ultra motion while jumping back, on reaction to seeing a whiffed spd press PPP… and uh, close 360K what?
edit: my rule of thumb when it comes to punishing, usually when there’s hesitation, its too late.
thank you soo much feels like its been years since ive seen some of dat Shiro
I always kind of thought the Rufus fight was hard, but I never see Japanese Abels struggle with it all that much. I don’t understand. They seem to make it look 5.5-4.5ish, and they play better Rufuses than I do. Then again, they’re also better than I am.
Hfz, how do the really awesome Abels in Japan that you see handle the Rufus fight on a day to day basis? Do they often get totally scraped, or do they handle themselves fine?
Now to watch Shiro videos for the next few hours.
i don’t know guys, i still thinks this is a 6 4 to rufus. i mean, what can rufus do on wake up that is safe? if you just sitt next to him and do CH. roundhouse, his ex messiah will hit you like 3 times and he will go over you, probablly because of the low hitbox abel gets, and then you can punish with whatever you want. i can see how rufus rushdown is pain too though.
http://www.justin.tv/clip/a00c7e902606e683
Hey, in this video at around 3.49, honda does a sumo splash and shiro blocks then it looks like he gets him with a cr.fp when he lands. I never knew you could do that, or are my eyes decieving me?
Oh god, then he does triple jab super. Hahaha.
Right this is getting silly now, Ultra on ryus ex hurricane kick…man.
Shiro is just…tries to think of appropriate superlative but fails
Also if people were still looking for information about the honda match-up then they should definitely check out the Shiro videos Ahdee posted, really good stuff against players of a standard that most of us will probably never play, its pretty frightening at times how Shiro rushes the shit out of Honda, haha.
I think im just gonna get some popcorn and watch all the videos now, screw this update shit, haha.
I don’t even understand how Shiro “gets away” with half the stuff he does. He makes people petrified to move, while my Abel’s randomly getting hit all day. I complain about getting outguessed and randomed out, while Shiro just goes to town on people. Those are some truly terrifying videos.
In the one Gief fight (http://www.justin.tv/clip/026961a5f6c42d0f), in the first round he does some weird anti-air thing which trades, then immediately ultras and catches Gief. The video quality isn’t quite good enough for me to see what the move is, can someone fill me in? It almost looks like a trade with falling sky, but does that put the opponent in juggle?
Two things I learned from these videos: I need to use more close standing fierce as anti-air against people who get in my face and then neutral jump (preferably canceled to roll), and I need to abuse CoD more against people who can’t punish it on block, especially EX CoD. Shiro throws that out with impunity against Sagat, Honda, etc.
Man. Shiro. 
It is “nice” to see him lose a few matches to random uppercut nonsense at times, though. Gives me some reassurance that it can happen to the best even when they’re playing well.
You can try backdashing and rolling out when he hits you in the middle of your backdash since it causes you to pop up. Once rufus has you in that situation its advantageous to him though so you should try avoiding it. trying to tech throws might lead to big damage and you getting cornered so you might consider just blocking and eating the throw and ex rolling out when he tries to jumpin on wake up.
About the rufus matchup. I used to think it was really bad , the main reaons being:
- ex messiah kick
- rufus pressure game
Rufus is actually pretty weak against abel if he doesn’t have meter. So you should try to land the first hit an start your mixup game before he gets any meter.
Once rufus has one meter every abel player gets scared and stops pressuring him.
There is however a way to pressure him when he has ex messiah kick. Aside from rolling through him and trying to bait the ex messiah ( this can make you lose the initiative) you can do a cr.hk on his wake up . Abel hitbox gets really low when he does cr.hk so if he does an ex messiah kick it will hit abel but go over his head kind of like fei’s chicken wing you can punish his recovery with raw ultra or cr.Hp
If he doesn’t do a messiah kick you can cancel the cr.hk into cod , wheelkick or roll and try to get another knock down.
ofcourse rufus has counters for cr.hk on wake up .it will lose to jabs and short , throw etc. so you have to keep that in mind.
Handling rufus presure game is hard and requires patience. Its best to avoid it by stuffing dive kicks with s.mp and just playing very patient.
I think the match is actually equal if both have no meter. It al depends on who lands the first hit
Havent see any top abels lately, been busy with school… but last time I recalled an AAA ranked abel got owned by Rufus… but thats Kirisuto…
These new shiro vids are just mad, I agree with what you said that shiro got away with a lot of stuff that I recalled doing the same but got punished… Guess people are that scared of messing up against him. 
As for the trade into ultra, thats an ex fs. Its not new stuff though(meaning its been talked about here awhile back)… EX FS is funky like that, when it trades weirdly like that it does no damage to your opp but you take the trade damage but yeah you get to juggle into ultra…
Waddup Peter. If you want to talk match strategy, this thread is better.
EDIT- Speaking of which, I’m gonna jack your post, and throw it in the Gief section.
But yeah… good shit. I cr. FP Gief’s st. RH. Gets a little more damage, and can still easily be done on reaction.
As for Rufus Dive Kick… there’s no great answer. Against shitty Rufus’, I just do s. FP after the first Dive, because they always double dive… but against Justin… not so much. You just gotta roll the dice on this one. Pick an option between EX Roll, s. FP, block, and tech… and hope it works.
Edit: Fixed V