i’m also no where near expert, but I do main hawk. hawk vs sim is one of the worse match ups in HDR in hawks favor. its almost as loop sided as honda vs hawk. one knock down means death for sim. if you safe jump sim, he can’t teleport out. if he does get the reverse teleport to come out, he will come right back to the same place. glitch in the game.
so instead of mindlessly spamming the neg edge spd, you need to mix things up. there are ways to still be tricky. its more scarier on the receiving end once hawk is close like that becase everything takes off major damage. just be calm. mix things up.
I was not aware of that further bounce back. I will need to use that for my ST game. thanks for the info. as far as HDR goes, like I said, just mix things up. if you get a knock down in the corner, just walk right up to tick range and wait for a mistake. you don’t have to spam that safe jump tick spd to win.
if you neg edge super and the other guy goes into the air or dp’s, hawk will do nothing. just like ST hawk’s neg edge 360. the super doesn’t whiff if you execute it properly.
Typhoon bounce back is the same in classic and HD mode. Sirlin changed it during testing, then added the whiff, then decided that he didn’t need the increased bounce back anymore. Fun fact: lp Typhoon leaves you a few pixels further away the mp and hp.
Lp also does the most dizzy, then mp then hp
how’re you gonna get the knockdown? most of the match is spent trading, the second you jump in the air all he has to do is slide. i far from see that being the same as honda v hawk. the only matchups that i feel i have a comfortable favor in with hawk are dictator and chun
So, you are saying that instead of doing an admittedly mindless and guaranteed setup you need to mix things up? Yea that definitely sounds like an improved character to me… also, the just step up your execution for tick throws is a pretty loaded statement. SPD ticks in ST were not exactly trivial, and Hawk doesn’t have the benefit of (at least any significant number of) active frames like zangeif to make sure he nailed it. So I have to just frame tick with 360, or else I get a throw wiff or my opponent gets extra reversal frames. Yea, sounds great, much better character.
But honestly, I personally don’t feel like hawk really gained ANYTHING in HDR. I know people will argue otherwise, but hawk dive is just a terrible move against people with good reaction times, as it gets stuffed by, well, just about whatever you want. It being safe on block doesn’t really come into play when good players just jab you out of it, if not worse. In ST at least you got a knockdown out of it if you managed to use it correctly, even if it did leave you a bit far, now it just leaves you in this strange not-quite-in-there position.
The long and short of it is, IMO, Hawk got worse once he is in, and he didn’t really get any better at getting in overall.
Completely agree with this. When I play Ken, I love hawk dives, easy jab DP big damage for me 
R.Hawk is way, way better than O or N Hawk. For starters he has O.Hawk’s normals, which are hugely superior to N.Hawk. And he has N.Hawk’s Super and throw techs. Instantly better, no questions there.
Add to that DPs that always knock down on the 1st hit, stray hitbox on cr Strong fixed and no more inescapable NE Typhoon loop. He’s miles better in Remix.
Hawk does have to work a little bit harder, true, but it only makes sense since he got some buffs, that he should get at least one nerf. Some could argue that he’s less mindless now. Characters like Guile and Chun Li actually have a chance now to reverse his tick throw loop, if they guess right, thanks to the whiff. But before, whether you guess right or wrong doesn’t matter, cuz you’re either going to get tossed or your reversal will be punished after block, cuz he’s perfectly safe thanks to NE. Add to that setup the built-in DP and that’s approaching a level of abusive gameplay. Absolutely no escape; that’s just f***ed up.
There’s no risk involved, only messing up the execution. There’s another character that has the same no-risk NE loop in ST: Honda. He got his throw loop nerfed, as did every other character’s throw loop (Dhalsim, Ken, Balrog), so it only seems right that Hawk should get nerfed too. And the bounce back in ST and Remix are the same. If the opponent is in the corner, bounce back doesn’t mean shit; Hawk can get right back in there, with a safejump even.
His new Dive is actually pretty good. Who said it can be punished on block? It can’t, cuz it’s perfectly safe on block against every character in the game. It puts him in the perfect range for a psychic DP or a sweep or a walk up Typhoon. That’s much better than O or N Hawk, whose Dive could be punished on block by about half the cast. And on hit, well, if the opponent is in the corner, that’s good, if not, oh well, gotta get in all over again.
R.Hawk is just miles and miles better. Y’all need to take off the rosy glasses.
No, no, stop, stop. Don’t bring this stupid ass fucking argument up again. Leave the HDR Hawk vs. ST Hawk argument alone and don’t touch it again.
Slayer, talk to any Dhalsim player that plays HDR and ask them what they think about Hawk vs. Sim and they will all be pretty unanimous about it; they hate that fight, even if it is slightly in Dhalsim favor. All it takes is one psychic DP to end the whole fight, and J.Fierce stuffs all of his limbs.
I’m sorry, I’m willing to drop this argument, but I have to say I see no logic in what you said here. You say R.Hawk is miles better than O or new hawk because he has O hawks normals, and his DP functioning correctly. While I will give you that if used improperly O.hawks DP would mess up, the normals doesn’t prove anything relative to o.hawk. Then you go on to talk about how he LOST and mindless, repetitive, guaranteed loop because it was ‘just f***ed up’, which while I don’t want to get into the argument of whether or not it was, how does losing it make him a better character? If you want to say R.Hawk is better, thats fine, but you don’t do it by talking about a bunch of stuff O.Hawk lost.
Last, I don’t know if you were referring to me or not, but I never said it was punishable on block, I said people with good reaction times will just stuff it anyways, which isn’t really a significant change but the reward for landing it was better before. Honestly, the only reason I believe people did consistently block hawk dive in ST as opposed to stuffing it was specifically BECAUSE it was so easy to punish.
Edit: Also, you talk about all these buffs Hawk got. To my knowledge, the only ones he got were O.hawk normals (not even really a buff IMO since most good hawks I’ve seen in ST play O anyways. Admittedly from this perspective he gets the super and tech throws, but if you get a super hawk has probably set up a throw loop anyways, and if someone throws hawk they deserve it since hawk can reversal SPD with 0 risk, beating regular throws), the DP buff (good but good players worked around this fine), and the dive ‘buff’ which I personally am not convinced is a buff. In return he lost a completely guaranteed (although situational) win against most of the cast, and the ability to score any kinda of a knockdown with dive. If you know of some other stuff that was changed that actually effects how he works, I’d love to know about them.
While Ken and Dhalsim’s throw ranges on their mash throws were reduced (Dhalsim more than Ken), Boxer still has the same throw range in both classic and HD. Also, Ken’s knee bash was supposed to get its damage on the first hit reduced, but it looks exactly the same to me.
I believe the new Hawk dive and easier 360 motion is being heavily underrated.
I guess me and Jiggly will have to demonstrate with action instead of words! 
Aqua what’s up. Why you use so many words where you can just use one j/k
That’s the spirit
Slayer: This is how I go into a sim match. I have about 85 sec to get in and land a DP. that gives me a knock down which equals win. safe jump tick throw repeat. its not that hard. plus in HDR you get a safe dive that gets you in DP range fast. sim can counter the dive with st back jab. that takes off a little chip to hawk. but if you hit with the dive you get your chip back times 3 or 4 maybe.
papasi: how can you reverse my hawk dives when your busy spinning around in circles as the world is exploding behind us?
murphagator: don’t give up on HDR hawk. the whiff made his spd harder because of the strict timing, but after I got used to it I’m getting a lot more frame tight ticks. its not easy and you won’t get it over night. but if you spend time working on it, you will improve in leaps and bounds. and regards to the new dive, its a million times better. but its not a hadoken, you can’t spam it for no reason when ever you feel. Its a counter move. you use it on reaction to what the other player is doing.
Balrog’s throw range was definitely reduced. I’m not an experienced Balrog player, so I’m not 100% sure if it was both Strong and Fierce that got reduced, or if it was just Strong. I’ve heard some Balrog players say it’s just Strong, but obviously an experienced Balrog player will be able to confirm this. The Fierce throw already had less range than Strong in ST so this is fine. There is definitely a difference though, even from my perspective of having to beat a Balrog player, I can reversal throw his loop more easily than in ST (where I had to rely on reversal Shoryukens only). And that’s the whole point of the nerf (same for Ken, can’t speak for the damage reduction without empirical evidence), but more characters can reversal throw Ken, Balrog and Dhalsim in Remix, which makes the loop that much less abusive and mindless, and less difficult to deal with, instead of only having to rely on reversal attacks, most can now reversal throw too.
I’ll help! Despite the removal of his infamous option select, he’s still very capable of railing opponents. Landing tick throw loops just feels so good!
i wasn’t saying they didn’t hate it, the previous person had said it was a matchup in hawks favor, so much in his favor that it’s the same as honda v hawk. i was simply disagreeing with that statement. that’s all
EDIT: and i’ve kinda been outta hdr for a while so excuse my ignorance if new stuff has been commin’ up. been playing way more ST at the arcade with people
Just to clear up some misinformation, ST Honda’s loop is not risk free. The thing that makes Hawk’s loop risk free is the safe jump. Without that, you can be reversaled or thrown out of the ground tick.
To answer DNGR S PAPERCUT’s bump, having won a tournament with R. Hawk and nearly mastering O. Hawk, I can confidently say that O. Hawk is better and more fun. His throw loop is the most powerful thing in the game, but also arguably the most difficult to execute. Take that away, and I don’t see how you can call that character better.
Blitzfu, It’s hard to blame someone for being wrong when they truly believe they are right. But when you are consistently wrong over a long period, maybe it’s time to take a step back and reevaluate everything it is that you think you know.
Footsies is boring, execution is where it’s at.
That is why st is st, because they made it hard to play.
Not for like other reasons though
Why do you bother ?
I have to wonder if posting over and over in a section of the forum dedicated to a certain game only to talk about how much better another game is and how much worse this game is could not be considered simply trolling and bannable.