Is the super bar emptying each time? Could you possibly be getting the regular throw whiff?
The Super Meter only empties itself after a successful throw. So if you are playing Claw, Zangief, or T.Hawk, and you input the Super Throw command, but your opponent uses something like an SRK or Flash Kick to beat your throw attempt, you’ll still keep a full meter. Super Throws cannot whiff like Super Attacks, technically Gouki’s Raging Demon can whiff but who cares about him, and Zangief’s Super Throw actually can whiff due to a glitch but the requirements for that to happen are pretty much only possible with programmable controllers so it’s not something that you’ll ever see outside of combo videos.
Did more tests with Hawk Super.
The Super does not whiff at all doing HCBx2 :r:+:p: or with HCFx2 :l:+:p:. I’ve tried for the past half hour against different characters, different levels, different punches, doing the motion at different speeds, and at different distances, and never got a whiff with this motion one time. This motion does not whiff everyone. GO NUTS.
On a different note however, I tried doing HCBx2 :ub:+:p:, and vice-versa, and a got a whiff every time in the same situations described above. Some odd programing Sirlin.
Unsure if this is already known if so simply ignore.
For people like me with crappy execution there is some sort of shortcut available for ticking into 360.
Apparently :df: counts as forward so with the common tick of :d::lp: you can do :df::lp::d::db::l::r::p:
I am guessing this also works for Gief ?
For some reason i could not get the super this way but that might just be poor execution on my part.
Wait Jiggly. you didnt know that you cant whiff a super with hawk? really? am i reading something wrong?
You guys are using ‘whiff’ in different ways. It sounds like you are talking about the Super whiffing and having your meter drain because of it. Jiggly is talking about doing a Super command from full screen and not having the whiff animation come out at all despite the Super command overlapping with a regular command throw.
Read back a few posts/pages.
Not only does this work, but the following motion also counts as a 360:
:df::lp::d::db::l::ub::p:
Fastest 360 motion ever?
Gridman, I always did :hcb:, :hcb::ub:+:p:. That motion whiffs whenever I’ve done it. Only when a experimented with replaced :ub: with :r: did I notice there was no whiff. I always felt the former motion was better for tick purposes. Besides, what’s the big deal with me not noticing it before?
And VF4, the Super did not Whiff at full screen or when I was slightly out of range.
Youre talking about the command throw new whiff then. See I was thinking you meant super whiff as in the meter drained.
Regarding his tiering and match-ups a bit…As Hawk, I definitely fear good Kens more than good Ryus. I pretty much main T.Hawk and Chun Li in HDR, and living in Okinawa affords me a pretty great connection with some amazing Japanese players (though it’s not great for playing against…pretty much the rest of the world, so if you catch me online and stick it out through some matches, THANK YOU).
Ken is much harder to get in on. His slightly larger, slower fireball is harder to neutral jump over or Rising Hawk through. His SRK has a much larger hitbox, less recovery time than Ryu’s, and he has first-frame hitting options (making him that much harder to jump in on) and totally invincible strong (making him that much riskier to bait reversals out of; compared to Ryu where you should do this every chance you get once they start). Of course, online Hawk’s counter pokes feel that much slower against “recovering” Kens, which is that much worse, but even on good connections, Ken just has the tools to give Hawk a harder time than Ryu overall. Ryu does have crossup knockdown Hurricane Kick, fake fireball is good for some set-ups, and his jumping strong is stupid good if you get jump happy…but these are all things you can avoid well by not being predictable and guessing correctly while learning your opponent’s game. Pretty much everything about Ken involves more strict timing or riskier moves on offense in general over Ryu. I’d call it 6-4 Ken, not 5-5.
The other one that gets me is the Honda matchup…8-2 Honda? I don’t think so. 7-3 I can maybe see, but Hawk does have a lot of tools to bait and chip Honda by being careful and patient, especially both forms of jumping fierce. What an amazing tool getting just out of his sweep range is and neutral jumping, with occasionally throwing in a Hawk Dive if they get buttslam happy or too complacent. You can time it so that by hovering and doing it a split second later than he expects, you will come down cleanly on his headbutt or HHS, or beat his buttslam outright. I definitely don’t fear Honda any more than I fear Cammy, for example. (Go crossup race!) Neither match is good at all for Hawk, as his options get rather limited…but neither are at a 4-1 disadvantage for him.
I always thought Ryu was easier than Ken too. Only reason why Ken is harder than Ryu is because of his DP’s. Not being able to safe jump is a huge pain the ass. I’d say Ryu vs. Hawk is 6-4, Ryu. Ken vs. Hawk is 7-3, Ken.
And dude, trust me and the majority of the Hawk players when we say Honda vs. Hawk is 8-2 Honda. Fight Thelo, who is the king of :db:'ing the whole fight. You’ll wanna punch a baby.
walk forward and block is huge against ken.
I’ve fought Thelo, and hoards of other very good Hondas online. The best ones are extremely patient, but no one’s completely immune to getting prodded if you yourself do it carefully and patiently. It’s not an 8-2 fight, sorry. It’s still bad, don’t get me wrong, just not that bad. I really made it a point to practice the hell out of that matchup since everyone counterpicks as Honda though, so maybe that’s just me.
Definitely agree with what you put about Ryu and Ken though. If you get a good read on a Ryu player, there’s very little he can do to stop you…not so much with Ken. His SRKs really do completely change the dynamic of the match.
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Look dude, I tried as hard as I possibly could in that fight, and I even had some lag to benefit me. I can count about one or two serious mistakes I made in that video as well. Even when played to the best of your ability, that’s still a nightmare fight. If you claim its 7-3, cool, but get some video evidence against some bad ass Honda player offline, otherwise what you say doesn’t mean too much.
I’m much more capable with Zangief than Hawk in just about every matchup, and while I agree that they are equally difficult vs Honda, it’s definitely 8-2 Honda for both. If I had to choose between Zangief or Hawk though, I’d go with Hawk vs Honda all the time. It’s much easier to get block damage with Hawk using the Dive sparingly. Zangief can’t get any block damage from half screen, unless the Honda player is asleep and allows Zangief to walk up Banishing Fist. It’s more favorable for Hawk than Zangief in terms of getting health advantage. Also, Hawk’s tools are slightly better than Zangief in this matchup. And Hawk doesn’t have to worry about Sumo Splash traps, he can DP that shit easily.
Also the safejump into built in DP technique should be a very potent tool for Hawk vs Honda’s wakeup Torpedos and Supers. I haven’t had a chance to test it out myself, but I can see Hawk getting one knockdown and ending the round right there. In theory, this technique should eliminate the wakeup reversal Torpedo and Super as an option completely, and possibly even the Sumo Splash. It should guarantee Hawk a safejump, tick 360 opportunity at every knockdown. Even though the Honda player could reversal Torpedo after blocking the first tick, that’s when the mixups come in. Check the Ken thread for a vid I posted of Aniken using this technique very well. If any Hawk player has success with this, let us know. It might just be the final push towards Hawk that I needed. = J
All it guarantees is a tick and that’s it if the opponent is smart. The safe jump set up is terrible as it’s just a series of guessing games where Hawk has an equal chance of coming out on the losing end as Honda in every exchange.
You safe jump Honda, and he blocks, meaning you get a tick with a jumping jab. If you try to throw off that tick then Honda is in range for his command throw and now you are getting a 50/50 shot at a successful throw because he’ll be negative edging. Not really a solid scenario for Hawk. If you do a low jab, off of your jumping jab, as a tick and then try to throw, then Honda can do a reversal attack to beat your throw and you’ll lose because of the whiff.
So Honda can block the safe jump every single time, then safely negative edge command throw off of the first tick, then do a reversal attack off of the second tick. The best you’ll get is a 50/50 shot at the first tick for a command throw. After the second tick, low jab, if you throw you’ll eat a reversal attack. If you don’t throw and try to bait a reversal and hit it with a dragon punch, and your opponent blocks, then you are open for punishment as well. There is nothing overly good about safe jumping Honda in ST.
Without the whiff in ST a safe jump on Honda was 100% damage. You’d get a dragon punch install upon landing, a free command throw out of Honda’s range, or a dragon punch install after negative edging a command throw against a reversal attack. Now that Sirlin scrubbed down Hawk for all the low level players, this match is way harder than it needs to be. Scrubs can’t negative edge with Hawk (but they can with Honda?) so I guess it needed to be taken out of ST for HDR.
I still laugh every time I see Hawk’s whiff animation.
I never had hands that were fast enough to pull off a 360 with my stick in ST(as far as T. Hawk goes not Gief):mad::mad:… in any case I tried doing a hcb x2+p(well jab only didnt try other button strengths or pianoing), and didnt get a whiff… ever… VF4 you sure you arent doing anything wrong(I definitely dont think my execution on a stick is subpar but might be I dunno).
EDIT: Also you miss ST T.Hawk… he was complete garbage imo due to his lack of good normals but he now has O. Hawks normals and a Super.
david "low strong ‘hawk whiff’ " sirlin
i miss o hawk 
So with ST Hawk you couldn’t even do a 360…but you are confident enough to say that N.Hawk and O.Hawk were garbage? 
N.Hawk is a competitive character in ST. O.Hawk is ranked A tier and has been shown to be a very strong character at even the most elite levels of play.
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Never ever said O. Hawk was garbage, he’s really solid… but I sticking to my guns and saying that N. Hawk is simply garbage imo(Remixed Hawk is still better I’d use him over N. Hawk anytime)… although I can agree that Sirlin didnt put enough thought into Hawk’s changes. His dive hits fireballs due to the awkward new angle and that throw whiff(he wouldve perfectly fine without it).
EDIT: You always manage to find the best tourney vids though lol. Those players have insanely good execution… I’ll never be that good:sad: