It’s the Ken mentality. :wgrin:
I see my Hawk 360 wiff cancel into 360 nearly every time I play with him! Probably because I piano my 360s starting with HP down to LP, but it still is reaaaaly weird to see.
If there is a difference it is very minor. Try it yourself in training. Doing walk up SPDs I can’t see any difference personally.
One difference between jab and fierce is that if you do it to someone in the corner fierce actually makes you land a little closer. However it might also make you bounce higher, not sure, hard to tell.
Perhaps the difference between jab and fierce is that jab had more grab frames? That would explain why fierce does more damage even though they have the same range and why fierce seems less reliable to some people.
Right, because we all know how much of a moron Hawk I am right?
Both dives both have there benefits. The loss of a knock down doesn’t mean the dive sucks. I hated how the Old Dive had so much risk in it, but if it hit, you’re golden. With Hawk’s New Dive, hit or block you’re in good shape. If it hits, thats even better. Either way the New Dive puts you IN, something that the Old Dive didn’t do right most of the time.
The thing about the new dive is that on hit it’s worse than the old dive and the better the opponent is the less likely they are to block it rather than either get hit with it or hit it. For example against Sagat whenever I do the dive against a good player I either get nailed or hit his arms after a tiger shot. Sagat blocking a dive is rare.
In the end the dive change didn’t make a huge difference either way. If it’s better or worse it’s only by a marginal amount.
It was a guaranteed risk against blanka honda and rog with a charge, and sim. Everyone else who could punish it was very situational and in spots where you probably shouldnt be diving anyways. the point is, the new dive helps against sim and rog mainly. i dont dive too much against blanka ever and honda is just nearly a hopeless match (and you shouldnt be diving if he has a charge anyways…) however, the old dive was crucial against guile and dee jay especially. go play against brian and land a new dive against him and watch yourself get NOTHING but pushed right back out. no matter what. even if you know he’ll retaliate with cr.mk or something, dp misses it. if you try to walk up and 360 (you’re too far to immediately 360 after unless you hit him in the head in which case he can punish on hit), cr.mk will push you right back out and you’re back to blocking the rest of the round.
with the old dive, if it hit, you got a knockdown and a huge pressure advantage as guile is getting up. if it missed, you blocked a sonic boom, something you’d be use to doing in that matchup.
same ideas apply for dj. he might not have a poke like cr.mk to push you out as easily as guile, but you probably arent going to land a dive cleanly against him ever. he can down fierce, jump back anything, and st.mp. mainly, good dj’s will st.mp and you’ll usually lose. however, in the rare case that (again a GOOD dj not a shitty one) fucks up the timing and you TRADE, gasp, a knockdown. and again, a big wake up advantage. i suppose a dj after a blocked new dive could cr.rh, cr.lk flash string but most of the time, you dont land a dive against dj.
As far as DeeJay goes, a knockdown dive only helped so much, since GOOD DeeJays wills know you’re Typhoon Shenanigans, and usually know how to escape it with his numerous tactics.
Guile is a different beast. When he blocks the New Dive, the ones I fight either;
A. SB
B. FK
C. Cr. MK
D. Sit there
In the case that he MK’s, a Cr. RH will trade and knock him down (you did it too me quite a few times). An SB has a 50/50 chance of beating a Cr. RH. Rarely do they Flash Kick, but when they do they’re usually meat. It’s the smart ones that sit and wait for your next move, in which case anything Hawk does is pretty situational.
Nothing is more fun than ticking someone only to see your command throw WHIFF and get counter thrown.
Sirlin did a wonderful job with Hawk. I guess I need to ‘try harder’.
The whiff is more than fair. And don’t blame your mistakes on the throw whiff.
I still stand by the belief that with the throw whiff (and therefore loss of “autocombo” repeated tick throw attempts) that Hawk should be able to knock down with Hawk Dive AND be safe on block.
“Whut”
Yeah, think about it. The move will never be one you can just throw out all the time and not expect to get punished for; it’s just too easy to see coming. If you use it properly, it SHOULD allow you to keep pressure. Getting in is still easier with Gief, who still has better options than Hawk once he does (in Remix, of course). I’ll go so far as to say they should also fix the “bug” Hawk has and allow him a few more grab frames on his command throw, though not as many as Gief’s SPD (since the tradeoff is that it also does more damage than SPD). You’d have a very real threat from Hawk, but still have the ability with virtually the entire cast to contain him so long as you’re not careless.
hey whats up guys…first time posting in this thread. ive been using remix hawk for about 3 months now. i am an average player but i am getting better. I have alot of trouble with turtle guiles and dee jays. if anyone has any tips or vids to share with me i would appreciate it.
My latest default is to attempt a walk-up 360 at the beginning of the match, hoping that they’re holding a defensive crouch. This has obvious downsides, but I’ll run a risk at taking an edge in a lopsided matchup. Mid-match I use neutral j.LPs a lot. My favorite outcome is a mistaken flash kick/upkick, after which I walk up and MP throw them toward the nearest corner. At a minimum I hope for it to make them second-guess kicks on reaction to jumps themselves, so that I can start mixing in dives and actual jump-ins. Watch for walk-up 360 opportunities, and always try to press as soon as you see them leave a crouching position. LP DPs will go through projectiles immediately on startup, so use that if the timing’s right and they’re trying to hit you while you’re down. I think you’ll lose this matchup even more than what’s already expected if you can’t run a watertight tick/360 loop the moment that you have them down near a corner 
thank you so much margalis. ill try the walk up 360. i usually do standing lp into 360 when they wake up (sometimes i get thrown out cuz i get too close)…its just hard trying to get in there when he is sonic boom crazy. t.hawk is a really awesome character i dont know why people rag on him…he has good range attacks, a good anti air, and a powerful 360.
Hey, I’m not margalis! As for ticking, from the ground I do s.MK -> 360 FWIW. I mix in DPs instead of 360s to keep them blocking.
sorry astrostl…but thanks for the tips your very helpful
What is the trick to landing close enough to DP someone after you land a dive?
I’m playing my friend’s Dhalsim and he just crouches after I hit him with a dive and my dragon punch misses almost EVERY TIME and I can’t figure out why. Is it dive height? Or is it character dependent? Or does the strength of the DP matter?
This new dive couldn’t possibly suck more if it turns out that a dive leaves you out of DP range on crouching characters even if you land a hit from any height.
None of this used to matter against Dhalsim and Guile as the dive scored you a knockdown which was money in those matches.
And Hawk’s DP just flat out blows. I was playing a Blanka online and my DPs would whiff at point blank range if he was crouching. I can’t believe Sirlin spent a year working on balancing Ken’s DPs but didn’t touch Hawk’s in any way.
I think unless you’re point blank, dp whiffs against crouching sim, guile, vega, and blanka. maybe cammy too. Its kinda silly but what can ya do? Hawk definitely needs a buff on his dp BAD. That would have been awesome and made me happy. More horizontal range on it so he doesnt have to be point blank to hit guiles cr.mk and in situations like that
The DP has more than enough range to get the job done. What it DOES need is for the hit box to reach a little farther and lower.
What’s the frame advantage/disadvantage on jumping jab and crouching jab on block? For the first time ever playing hawk, some dude playing chun was throwing me out after a jumping jab before I could get in a crouching jab. Consistently. I’m not fucking it up ether. I’m pretty sure this guy was juicing his throws with a turbo but I’m curious anyway.
^^
NKI told me that all jumping attacks stun for 11 frames on hit. On block, they follow the same formula they do for hit or block for grounded attacks. 11 for light attacks, 16 for medium attacks, and 21 for heavy attacks or special moves.
Ever since the days of WW, I’ve loved people jumping in on me with jab because, usually, they hit too high with it since it comes out so fast and then I get to throw them. With any jumping attack, it’s all about how deep you land that attack that determines whether or not you get frame advantage. Of course, after a blocked attack, reversal throws and reversal special moves with the proper invincibility or “priority” will still win if you try to follow up with anything during their reversal window. Of course…that still means they have to guess correctly.