I think you are right about this James. In ST Gief has an 11 (according to Yoga Book Hyper courtesy SweetJohnnyV, and the video at the end of the post) frame throw window with a whiff. I think he kept that. Now I think Hawk got the short end of the stick in the remix changes. I think he got a whiff, and no additional grabbing frames. Honda has no additional grabbing frames and no whiff. It just came up in conversation when I was asking JV to check something in the book for me.
That makes perfect sense. That mean you have to tick perfect with hawk, unlike Gief who has that hrow window. EVerything makes sense now. God thats gay.
Does anyone think that this was unintentional by Sirlin? He already admitted he wanted the new dive to be KKK and the old dive to be PPP but ran out of time.
The more and more R.Hawk is explored the more it looks like he got screwed over.
No ive been saying that for a while now. I know im not the only one either. I know Jedi, Jiggly, RSX and Rizo have been saying / agreeing too. Perfect example - I was playing a solid bison from my area OFFLINE and i had him knocked down in the corner. I would do meaty cr.mp tick (intentionally to test it), fp typhoon. he could jump out everytime. granted i could just dp him since he was in the corner (and i did so so i got a few more attempts), he still could jump out of it every time. im no slouch either, i know my tick timing and know when i fuck up. this wasnt me fucking up 10 times in a row.
this was a major oversight that others will not admit to because they dont play hawk but think their sirlin is gods gift to street fighter. just like the morons who like the new dive still way more than the old dive.
So much truth in the last paragraph. If this upcoming patch doesn’t address some of Hawk’s oversights, I’ll honestly just drop the game and go back to Classic.
If he jumped out every time you were timing it wrong.
Tick throwing with Hawk is hard, that’s true. Sadly holding up does work way too well, as does trying to mash out a reversal or psuedo-reversal. But if you time it right they can’t jump out of any tick. Every one of Hawk’s ground normals that he can tick after gives him frame advantage and you can always grab someone before they have time to jump.
Now online against a jump happy, jab DP happy Ken good luck…but offline jumping out of his ticks isn’t possible if you time it right, unless it’s a weird Dictator thing which I doubt. Try it in training mode.
See thats the thing. I know its impossible to jump out of ticks. The problem is, with FP, its 1000x more stricter in HDR for whatever reason. Since after those 2 rounds, i tried only jab 360s, and i never missed. im not some shit head who cant time it either.
Btw guys jumping out of ticks is possible offline even in classic, remember how sometime you combo someone and they jump in between the 2nd and 3rd hits…I noticed that Chun/Vega/Bison can actually do that more often than any other character the system allows it but it’s random.
I thought that was a glitch. Something like that when you hit someone on the first frame after landing, they’d get combo’d for 2 hits then act like they had been hit out of the air from the second hit.
I still haven’t noticed any difference between jab and fierce. I’m not saying you’re wrong though. I wish there was some way to perform more controlled tests. (Paging NKI!)
I hear you, i know some people who use fp exclusively and dont notice a difference but I member Jedi and RSX saying they definitely felt a difference between the two. I dont know what it is exactly or WHY it feels so different in HDR but it does. I had no problem in Vanilla ST, but whatever. Maybe Im just crazy.
I almost never play hawk and haven’t read most of this thread, so apologies in advance if this is old news…
I was playing a friend online today and he had to step away for a moment, so I picked T.Hawk just to practice doing SPDs. A couple of times I was right up by him, did it, and got a whiff. He wasn’t in hit or block stun. He was just standing there. And I wasn’t far away. I was pretty close. I can’t even imagine why it gave me the throw whiff instead of the SPD. Have you guys seen this before?
FWIW, I dont remember which button I used to do the SPDs. Not that it should matter. Just figured I’d mention that since you guys are talking about them feeling different.
You probably most likely hit fierce. Jabs never done that for me once. I havent goofed with mp enough to know how it works but FP whiffs just seemingly all the time for no good reason. I havent seen it whiff in a situation like yours but it really would not surprise me. Just know that FP doesnt have that much range. 2 cr.jabs from point blank (without jump in) i think is as far as fp can reach.
I don’t believe there is any range difference between jab and fierce SPD.
The T. Akiba page lists no difference and I don’t see any in testing from what I remember.
The other day I was playing a Blanka who would mash out electricity while I was ticking and I kept getting hit by it instead of getting an SPD. Didn’t make sense. I would get the throw whiff animation and then Hawk would reach out and hit the electricity. Now it’s possible that I was doing the SPD too early but it happened every friggin time and my tick timing is pretty good. (I f anything I delay for pretty long after a tick to make sure I don’t do it too early)
I remember once before I was fighting a Blanka who was doing electricty and I did a walk up SPD and the same thing happened, I got the whiff animation from 1/2 character length away. That time I wasn’t even ticking.
I don’t know if there is something about Blanka or the online or the fierce SPD or what. Maybe the fierce SPD hits for exactly one frame and that frame is sometimes skipped or advanced over without being detected?
Remember that ST speed works by skipping frames, maybe that combined with the online makes it possible to skip the actual grab completely and go directly into whiffing?
In my testing of jab vs. fierce SPD I didn’t see any difference at all but that was in training mode, not online. After my SPD losing to Blanka electricity every time yesterday I’m willing to believe there is something wacky about using the fierce SPD online.
Theres no way that can be true. You see the ginormous damage difference between jab and fierce? There has to be pixel differences between fierce and jab. No doubt in my mind. also, crossup splash, cr.jab x 3 jab typhoon works. crossup splash, cr.jab x 3 fierce typhoon doesnt work. also another example is jump jab, cr.jab x 2 jab typhoon works. jump jab, cr.jab x 2 fierce typhoon doesnt. this could be me fucking up but im 99% positive it isnt. always always always open to being proven wrong since thatll help MY game too hahah
Also - Ive had that electricity thing happen to me. Not just against blanka but chun. it usually happened when i would try and piano all 3 tick inputs. however, now that i exclusively use jab, theres no problem. i mean, maybe im just crazy but the feeling of difference between jab and fp is just there. i dont know why, but it is. im glad you dont see a difference marg because it kind of gives me hope that its just me.
that theory is plausible but if it is, then it was definitely changed since that kind of thing would never happen in vanilla ST.
Speaking as a shitty Thawk player myself, it just FEELS like my opponent has a worse chance of getting away if they decide to jump backwards. Although, while my reasoning is at least a slightly educated guess, probably most people just like hitting the Hp and Hk buttons.
