those characters are almost nothing alike, other than superficial similarities
As an aside, have any of you lot ever tried disabling meter, parries, quick-stands and throw techs and tried playing 3S like SF2? Very strange experience!
The only things similar between them are the fact that their moves and some normals look the same, as well as the general concept of far zoning. The big difference between them is that Remy is much more mobile and has some dirty tricks up his sleeve with charge partitioning. The bad part is that Remy takes stun damage like a Make-A-Wish kid.
I’m not TOO familiar with how Gief plays in SF4, but Hugo doesn’t have EX Greenhand or any particularly useful move that advances him toward the opponent. Lariat by itself sucks(including EX Lariat which has no invulnerability), but it can be used in certain situations, like a combo ender or punishing Akuma’s Teleport. Hugo will rely on Clapping and his mid-range pokes while slowly closing the gap for the mindgames. Hugo’s main focus is trying to land 360s/720s without trying to land them at the same time. Hugo also does pretty bad against Akuma in 3S. ;(
I can think of only like one matchup where Necro will be relying on his far-range pokes(Hugo). Necro is drastically different from Sim because he really shines in close-range play. He has sick corner juggles, a 90% safe drill that does well even when parried, and can do massive stun. Necro also takes better damage.
Necro is nothing like dhalsim. this comparison always annoys me because its only said by people who haven’t touched 3S. yes his arms stretch. i guess he should play like blanka too since he uses electricity. if you try using necro like dhalsim you’re going to get smacked around. His long range game is just an option he has for certain situations. It isn’t what he’s built around. I don’t remember dhalsim ever pushing people into corners and then comboing off of throws for ridiculous damage/stun.
Just don’t think about comparisons. The character’s that are in both games are different due to the systems. If you learn and understand the systems the way the characters play is obvious.
Like Makoto. She’s obviously going to be better since defense is no easier or harder than offense in 3S. 3S has a lot of 50/50 moments and Makoto is designed to take advantage of the guessing that’s inherent in the system. 4 has a lot fewer situations like that so she has a much harder time.
we’d also have to take into consideration all the other characters in the game to get an idea of how they function in each game and why. It’s just a huge undertaking with really not much payoff. The most that should be said is basically what aku said and really has nothing to do with character specifics and more to do with gameplans/playstyles.
Hugo wants to be close so in that respect yes, he’s like zangief. That’s where it ends though. Otherwise how things play out is very different.
You answered this perfectly in one sentence.
…and aku and Tebbo nail up the summaries very nicely. I mained Dhalsim for many years in SF2 and even tried to in MVC2 for a time, as well as played him a lot in every other game he has been in. I main Necro, have since 2nd Impact (played Elena in New Generation), and they are right on what they say, you can’t play this guys the same at all.
and as well with the other characters you wanted comparing, and Tebbo’s last comment is dead on. The big men want to be close, but other that, big, big differences.
im part for and part against the idea of doing some writeups like what was just done about how each character basically functions. part of the reason im against it is b/c stuff that is intuitive for us to say like:
“alex can’t play reactive but capitalizes on guesses or openings huge without needing meter, which is good cuz his super sucks. he has a strong pre-emptive offense. good jumper. he wants to be in your face when you are in the corner”
don’t mean as much to new players as to us. i dunno what format would be useful like. character objective, whether they are pre-emptive/reactive or both generally, their trouble character (think for 2 seconds you’ll realize its not chun for everyone) Hugo for example does alright against chun in comparison to how he does against dudley.
i dunno cuz the when I was learning what each character could do i constructed in my head my vision of “their fangs” like what did a match from them look like when things worked out. I dont know if this makes sense to people from that so heres a link of like shit going well for dudley:
[media=youtube]8Q01u7NPFkY[/media]
i think at the start of learning its good to form a vision of what every character’s dominance looks like because your gameplay won’t look like that for a while. that is my recommendation.
anyway that should help. now go play a fuck ton its going to take a while to absorb all this
@circle I was just wondering if that was true or not.
Would it be better to compare different versions of characters? (Ryu/Ken/Chun/Ibuki/Mak/Dud/Gouki compared to their SSFIV versions) Just trying to jump-start some discussion as these boards aren’t really popping. You could highlight the differences in the system and what that means for that character, differences in moves between the two games, buffs/nerfs, etc. But if this is not worth discussing, then excuse me.
I don’t think people are fundamentally against comparisons. I think they just get in the way of playing the game like the game wants to be played.
The things that make the characters different between games is the game they’re in. SF4 is not in the SF3 line of games so it isn’t like comparing say Sean from 2nd Impact to Sean from 3S.
I think the best way to go about it is to make sure people separate 3S and SF4 and play them almost as if they don’t even share the SF label. People new to 3S but with a background in SF4 should just look at that compilation thread that was made just like someone who hasn’t played SF4. Because the only things that SF4 will help you with are the same things any fighting game will help you with in 3S.
This thread: http://shoryuken.com/f160/3s-superguide-fight-now-siiiing-passionately-later-necro-added-237046/?daysprune=60
Stupidly organized but at least he put a bunch of links in one place.
I have to partially agree and disagree.
I agree that its approaching things from the wrong angle to write a comparative guide on how Ryu plays in 3s, and Ryu plays in SF4, since its less a difference of the character, and more a difference in the game.
At the same time though, discussing how the games differ through discussing how Ryu plays in SF4 vs how he plays in 3s would probably be more helpful to a lot of players than inconcretely discussing how the game mechanics differ.
There’s definitely truth there but I think with something like that it’s more about asking a specific question and getting a specific answer. Or rather, I wouldn’t bother with that myself.
It’s probably one of those things where “it’s doesn’t do much to ask, but it doesn’t hurt too much to ask anyway”. v(=<=)v
Are charge characters a bit disadvantaged in sf3 considering parry? Tier list wise they don’t seem to do well other than urien. Chun traditionally a charge charter turns into a motion character, then in sf4 she goes back to charge.
I think the distinction between charge and non charge characters is more inconsequential than in SF4. In SF4 you see similarities in that charge characters will be less combo oriented, with good normals.
In 3s, whether or not a character is a charge character isn’t such a significant distinction.
So with that said, no, I wouldn’t say parry hinders charge characters that much. RX seems to take advantage of parry pretty well. Plus 3s has more advanced charge mechanics than any other SF game.
Due to partitioning and the charge time I don’t think characters with charge attacks are any worse off. I don’t think there’s a correlation between perceived character strength and charge moves. I think it’s a coincidence more than anything since there are no charge characters like in other SF games. All the charge characters have other inputs too.
I don’t think charging hurts parrying specifically. It might hinder certain possibilities but it gives the advantages that charging gives instead. My limited sense agrees with pherai. It might change how they approach parrying a bit but that would not be enough to make them less powerful alone.
Thanks to charge partitioning, charge characters actually have a couple tactics to take advantage of parries(charge, parry into instant special).
But for the most part, the characters’ placements in tiers have more to do with their own individual weaknesses than charge moves themselves. Not to mention the charge is actually shorter in 3S than most other SF games(1.5 sec in 3S).
One thing I will mention though, is that it could potentially get ridiculous if Urien was a motion character like Gill…though that would take all the fun out of him. ;D
Hey there people. I’ve noticed that ever since I’ve started playing SSFII and SSFIV, I’ve become incredibly bad at 3S. I usually concentrate too much on my footsies and not enough on my combos (combos are usually also blockstrings on SSFIV, so they are more of an automatism than anything else, hitconfirming only the special after more than only 1 attack).
My game is back to being way too basic. I hadn’t played it for a long time and had a ratio of 4:6 against my friend who’s better than I. Now it’s something along the lines of 1:10, which I find very frustrating. I beat him on footsies and grabbing, but his combo punishes are far more than enough to beat the shit out of me.
I’ve been trying to play Makoto, Yun and Dudley so far, he plays Akuma and Ryu. So I’ve been wondering, am I better off relearning the whole game or learn combos specifically? They take a whole lot of concentration for me and I end up ignoring my footsies game, which hinders my game even more.
I’m really confused on what should I be doing anymore. Not to mention that once my friend gets a knockdown, he kills me with Denjin unblockable, I can’t seem to parry it. Is it my timing?
combos shouldn’t be taking any concentration away from other parts of the game. if they are then it means you aren’t doing them enough. combos basically get narrowed down to 3 types in 3S: safe combos (fairly rare in this game), hitconfirms (where you don’t finish unless it hits), and punishes (depends on position, your meter, and how much time you have). just figure out the main ones you need for each of those categories and you’re good to go.
and yes to the denjin thing. you’re missing the first hit? or choking with the rhythm? the answer to the first question is: it’s just a guess, so don’t get put into that position in the first place (avoid getting backthrown, and so on). for rhythm, see parry training mode.
btw if you’d rather focus on footsies and not on combos… you’re using the wrong characters.
There’s your problem. Besides Dudley, the spacing and poking game for these characters doesn’t really yield any benefits. This is especially the case against shotos, who usually can sweep or low forwardxxsuper your ass if you’re not careful. All of your characters have fantastic mixups and damage, and that’s where you’ll win the match-up. Ignore the footsies: dash or jump in with makoto and dive kick with yun. A slow paced footsie game will always go in the shotos favor so get in dat ass.
Pretty much this is what I’m trying to “remember”. I’m using Urien and Yang and they definitely cant keep up with shoto footie game.
Yang vs Ken shouldn’t be all that difficult because EX Slashes can be a decent counter to shoto footsies. The rolling kick/senkyutai beats the fireball game as well. Yang has to worry more about EX Tatsus and Shoryus since they both beat Yang in the air. Yang just needs one slash combo and he can then ride it out from there.
Urien is harder since he has to create opportunities and take some chances in order to get close, push them to the corner and work his Aegis mixups.
You can either…
- …just try to play the footsie game against Ken, which is tough and also not in your favor since his pokes lead to Super while you’re just trying to get meter for Super, wait for him to make a mistake and get that launcher…
- …or play a little more brave and anticipate Ken’s attacks. Parry slow mids, Headbutt over low attacks, throw a LOT(you MUST throw with Urien), partition tackles/headbutts, etc.
I strongly recommend you don’t try the 2nd option at this point(though you MUST learn to throw with Urien). haha