LOL this makes no sense.
anyway too off topic now, good luck learning 3s!
How does it not make sense? You really can’t separate the concept of improving from winning? Or is it just too general? It would still make sense, but it would be invalid at that point.
We’ve had plenty of other occasions to bitch about the game, now we’re just trying to help the OP get adjusted to the game. That’s all. Take the cynicism outside.
And lostintheflurry’s right. This IS a good thread, because despite all the useful shit we have in the 3S subforum, there’s still no harm in asking the players themselves how to transition to this game. I can understand that sometimes it’s certainly a better experience to get actual responses than just go look up a FAQ. It’s silly, but that’s just how things are sometimes.
It’s not that silly. FAQ’s/Guides/Tutorials are generalized, and don’t focus on the particular needs of the person watching it. You can be sure when 3s OE comes out, more people who started with SF4 will try 3s. Given that, you can make information available in a way that is more custom tailored to that group of people by skipping knowledge they already know, and pointing out specific things they are likely to get tripped up about.
This is very true. Let’s try to put the games side-by-side then. No more 3S vs 4.
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0:10- Akuma’s portrait is a lot cooler in 3S. Fact.
0:22- Tokido Cr.mk>hadou slipped because of distance, I’m not sure how often this happens in 4 but in 3S I think your pretty safe to hadou after low forward.
0:24- Something obvious: Damage. That’s an SRK on Gouki it should be doing plenty more damage.
0:35- This is when the fireball wars start. This doesn’t happen much in 3S it CAN, but usually doesn’t.
1:10- Air Hurricane isn’t anywhere near as effective for running away in 3s.
2:15- SRK’s are not nearly as safe on wake up in 3S compared to SF4 simply thanks to FADC. Once you press that punch theres no going back, in a way this makes not attacking in itself a mixup option.
Throughout this whole game,we didn’t see super once. You build meter much faster in 3s and meter management is an important part of the game. Save it for super? Use it for an EX? This kinda stuff can be the difference between a win or a lost. Oh and lots of jumping, (something I’m guilty of myself), generally jump less in 3S.
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0:20- Much more damage on that SRK.
0:31- Deshiken gets a parry and momentum changes instantly. This is why its important to constantly mix-up because your opponent can do more than block if he knows what’s coming. If he had super that would have easily been the round right there.
Note how dashes aren’t worthless in this game.
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0:00-0:30- Starts off with some footsies. Notice the tight spacing in comparison to the first video. Don’t throw out unsafe moves or you could eat a:
0:40- Chun SA2. Make a mistake and you could lose 40% on the spot.
0:56- Again, lot’s of characters get supers off one poke. Be conscious of your opponent’s meter and take into consideration possible punishes. (If I srk on wake up am I going to eat super?)
2:19- You are not Deshiken. When Yun activates you should probably block.
4:15- Makoto in 3S and in SSFIV are two completely different characters. You should watch out for reset situations right here where makoto players will try and grip you, and believe me we’re always thinking about it. Compared to 4 her karakusa is much more deadly.
Hopefully someone more experienced in both games will have some input.
After you understand some of the casts normals/specials/supers you really need to work on integrating parry into stuff. It needs to be part of what you do. By that I mean you need to understand buffering parries and option selects that have parries. Once you get the feel of the forward and down parry you’ll need to work on mixing it into your normal gameplay. This is really the single biggest leap you can take in 3S and separates the people who know absolutely nothing from the people who have some understanding of what’s going on. I personally floundered around for a long time playing on and off not really understanding how to incorporate parry so fluidly into my play until very recently. From my experience that step made an enormous difference in my gameplay and understanding of the game.
A lot of the cool parries you see that lead into nice little combos are probably option selected or buffered. The second and really the breakthrough stage I think is definitely when you incorporate parries as just another universal technique. Just like jumping or blocking. Don’t think of parry as some high level technique because it isn’t. Make sure to work on it as soon as you can perform basic combos/understand the character’s normals pretty well. It’s not the first thing you need to do but I think it’s probably the second most important thing to wrap your head around.
Also I wouldn’t really say jump less than SF4. In SF4 jumping is very easily punished so it’s rarely a good idea unless the character specifically has good moves to use from the air to pressure. In 3S though things are a bit more fluid and I think it really comes down more to playstyle/preference. Some characters are in the air a lot, like Yun. It seems obvious for him to be jumping a lot but most character’s are less specific. Oro has a double jump which can be misleading so a lot of Oro players will use that as a weapon. Twelve basically relies on his excellent/odd mobility.
Don’t be afraid to jump. Just remember what your options are in the air which includes empty jump ins. Once you’re confident about parrying you shouldn’t fear jumping around. Do not confuse fear with experience/knowledge. If you don’t know why you’re jumping then stop jumping. A big difference between 3S and SF4 is mobility.
Excuse me if I’m not very specific. It’s difficult for me to cite specific examples for a number of reasons. One being I’m just not that completely experienced to know a billion examples off the top of my head. The other that 3S is less about x beating y. Like I think many have said before, 3S has a lot fewer ‘correct’ responses to things. It’s hard to pin things down especially if someone isn’t even working on a specific character yet or isn’t incorporating parries completely yet. So if everyone comes off as being vague about things I’d think that’s why. A lot of us either started playing when all kinds of tutorials and frame information was less common so I don’t think many people who play 3S think in terms of specifics like that. This is a gross generalization, feel free to berate me.
Pardon the essays, i’m out of work currently 
I’m trying to get my friend into fighters so I started him with 4 to get the general gist of everything, NOW I’m trying to get him into 3s so this is an interesting topic for me.
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If your coming from 4, and you try to focus attack you’ll notice that your character will do a cute little hop. It’s a decent poke and worth mentioning. You can usually follow this with a combo, a few of which are showcased in the link above. When you UOH, low attacks will whiff and your opponent must block high. You can even start some supers right after startup with UOH though not very practical. The best use of it is to keep your opponent guessing on a high/low mixup.
Tebbo pretty much nailed it about parries, one thing I’d like to add to incorporating parries into your game though. Parrying is one thing, but getting the most out of your parry is another. You should know what you want to do AFTER you get that parry. If your not comfortable parrying and then attacking, it may be safe to parry and throw. It gives you a knockdown, which in turn another mixup but try not to make this into a habit for long. Also if you use the same combo after every parry, you will be punished. If I get a parry and go for c.lk>lp hayate>karakusa every. single. time. I’m gonna get empty jump supered.
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this is a meaty hits tutorial from ancient days ago, its pretty brilliant and i love the quotes. it is extremely important to absorb this because wakeup game in 4 compared to 3s is 50 million times different. btw the other term for wakeup game is okizeme.
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This is probably the best tutorial ever made for a fighting game. It is comprehensive and easy to follow. Thongboy Bebop deserves endless amounts of praise for it and you should watch it multiple times. Its marvelously well produced.
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This one is great and very handy. Its a combo to super encyclopedia for every character. It doesn’t have everything there is but it has ALLOT. Its jam packed so its going to be a useful resource for a LONG time in developing as a player.
Combing into super IS third strike.
QUICK NOTE BOUT QUICKRISE
In 4 you only get knocked down without the ability to quickrise off throws. In 3s only supers knock down without quickrise, everything else can be quickrisen. This becomes very important in some matchups. Also it should be noted every character has different rise/quickrise speeds and knowing that becomes tremendously important as it affects what you can do with your positioning after knockdown or super knockdown.
I would take that link combo video with a grain of salt. It misses a lot of basic things.
dunno if this was already mentioned but you could also check out gootecks’ guide for 3S players going to sf4, and attempt to apply some of those principles in reverse. you might get a useful connection or two out of it. i haven’t read it though.
Good stuff man?
FYI: Pretty often with Ken before super, never with Ryu and sometimes with Akuma.
Thing with meter in 4 is with the Ultra combo, super’s are diminished but meter management is there, just different for different characters. Dhalsim for example lives by his Super and Gief or Balrog not at all. Seems the same with Yang or Alex to me so far. Some characters would rather the meter for EX than a SA.
Jumping seems wayyyy more dangerous in 4 without the parry. AA’s are very rock, paper scissor and little variation in between. Know the right one to use and you’ll get it every time. I?m seeing the bigger mind game in 3s with jumps.
Now I thought Yuns GJ was dam near invincible CH?ing anything you throw at him. So I guess that was pretty GDLK.
Question, some of these unblockables like Ryu?s SA 3. See it coming start tapping forward maybe parry the first then get hit with the rest. Is there a rhythm to multi fireball parries? I?ve been tapping forward as if I?m forward dashing.
3s players say ?chains and links? sf4 players say ?cancels and links?
But also, Links don?t seem to mean the same thing. Links in sf4 is basically waiting for the move to end and pressing the followup attack within a very small window. Typically 1 or 2 frames. Same in 3s?
it misses cancels because its a LINK combo encyclopedia. of course it has some cancels in there, or things that can be done as a cancel or a link.
some of the stuff is more exhibition style. like you don’t see ken strongxfierce because that is a cancel. but close strong on crouchers is a link.
i don’t know what else you would be referring to. if you think its missing allot of stuff you might not be thinking of it in the proper context.
to trini: yes same thing as sf4. 3s players say cancel also but they are referring to supers/specials out of normals. chains is referring to normals. in sf4 your link most of your normals that combo, in 3s 90% of normals chain meaning they ‘cancel’ the animation with the next move.
3s uses the 3 terms: chain, cancel, link all to refer to different things.
you wouldn’t say i chained super after low forward. you would say you canceled it. you also wouldn’t say you canceled strong into fierce with ken you would say you chained it. however if you did like makoto’s stand strong to stand lk you would link it like how sf4 combos work.
hope that is clear!
parrying : everything you parry has a specific timing. only exception is like ibuki knife super/ oro big ball you can mash, everything else is PRECISION
watch the thongboy tutorial like immediately he goes into that and TONS more on mechanics in an easy to see way
It’s a consistent tap of forward. As the second one that you miss hits you, is where you should be tapping forward and so on. Use training mode vs gouki hp sakunetsu for practice.
I would say all characters rely on super. The game is kinda built around it even. Coming from 4 where normals don’t generate meter and FADC eats plenty of it, you don’t have to focus on saving meter for super nearly enough. Some supers give your character more meter to work with potentially so take that into consideration.
Yun with “the force” isn’t invincible but you’ll need a lot of experience to be able to counter it effectively. A lot of it is situational, and over time you’ll come to recognize what you can and cannot do.
Jumping may be safer in 3s, but it’s not because of jump parry. Your not going to be hopping around parrying shit out the air with ease for a while.
Parries are 100% safe, if you land them.(Actually not even, if you choose the wrong option afterwards.) You can be baited to parry and punished accordingly. Say ryu jumps in, you think he’s gonna roundhouse or whatever, you parry, he does nothing and throws you. There are ways out of this I think? (Option-selects or something? fuck if i know)
Just go to parry training, set yourself to autoparry, and record whatever move you’re having trouble parrying against you. Just follow the timing to parry that happens when you have autoparry on.
Jumping in 3S is quite safe in some circumstances, and not in others. Depends on whether the opponent has a decent Shoryu-type AA, if the opponent is savvy-enough to always counter your jump-ins in different ways, etc. Jump-parries as a tool do make jump-ins safer on paper, but there are many ways to circumvent those parries and turn it around.
Jump-parries in the last half of your jump also remove your trip-guard. It might actually be the case for jump-parries at any point in the jump, but I can’t remember.
You’re talking about an option-parry that yields nothing as there was no attack thrown out to parry in that situation. That’s one way of a parry being unsafe (though like you said, the situation can be made far more complicated than this if both players are implementing various option-selects).
But it goes deeper than that - successful parries are not 100% safe.
Even if you successfully parry an opponent’s attack, being in parry-freeze can work against you as much as for you. The main thing that can make successful parries unsafe is strategic command grabs:
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Even when the parrier had begun the start-up of another move to punish the parried attack, their moves were neither fast-enough to beat the grab’s start-up, nor airborne, nor invincible. Dangerous trick!
Edit: I was going to include a video I remember seeing a while back of an SA2 Necro that would throw out Tornado Hooks against his blocking opponent (an Alex player, I think), and when the opponent red-parried the second or third hit he would cancel to Slam Dance. I can’t remember who it was, anybody else? Was nice.
Jumping is inherently safer in 3S. You have a tool to use defensively in the air which doesn’t exist in 4. The only thing that makes jumping not safe is the same thing that makes anything in the game not safe; the other player being inconsistent. You certainly CAN jump all over the place and air parrying is much much much less of a guessing game than parrying on the ground. Against a good opponent though he’ll vary everything so jump ins are just as dangerous as walking in range of pokes. So while I would say it’s safer than in 4 it isn’t something you want to do without thought. That goes for everything though.
I think what you’re hung up on is the idea that you shouldn’t jump because it commits you to something your opponent can react to before you’re even there yet. People know the trajectories of jumps so it’s like telegraphing your location long distance. The thing is if you don’t jump in feet first and take some risks you’re going to have a more difficult time taking full advantage of the system. Because it does rely greatly on calculated risks. So I’d say don’t worry about jumping. Jump all you want just make sure there’s a purpose to the jumping. Really, if you have a gameplan in 3S and a character that works well with that gameplan you can learn much easier. If jumping is part of that gameplan (yun, yang, akuma, oro maybe, etc) then you really do need to get comfortable in the air.
I don’t feel like anything is ‘for sure’ in 3S. People starting to play need to find a character they enjoy using and figure out (usually based on super) what their gameplan is. That sets a very rough path to take to the goal of winning a match. Filling in that path will take a long time but it gives you some kind of skeleton to work on. Things are much easier when you’re thinking about stuff like “what can I use to safely get him in the corner” “what can I use to keep him there” at different stages of the fight. Instead of simply “win the game”. For instance with Urien my main goal is to get meter as safely as I can and then work on pushing them into the corner for an aegis combo. That may sound stupidly simple but the way it actually plays out is nothing so basic. It just lets me focus on the moment instead of worrying about the bigger picture because I know what I’m trying to do.
Set more clear objectives than ‘win’. Figure out what your preferences/character dictate to you in the form of a gameplan and follow it until it’s natural for you to do so. Then you’ll be free to learn all the intricacies of the system without stumbling around mindlessly attacking with no clear path to winning.
Oh and yeah there’s a specific rhythm to multiple parries. It’s not nearly as hard as it seems to get things that require multiple parries. Like pherai said just parry akuma’s shakunetsu to get a basic feeling then try some longer or different timed things. I don’t think there are endless variations either. It feels like there’s only really fast like Ibuki’s air super, medium like any hadouken super and then combo supers which have bits of consistent timing chunked up differently. Can anyone verify one way or the other?
That was me, but Pherai’s tip about watching auto parry in training is probably better. Wish I had training mode myself.
@circlemasher: I was under the impression that if you do 2369 (the 6 being the parry.) You’d either parry, or jump.
Someone wanna point out the differences between Guile and Remy? Zangief and Hugo?
Sorry everything jumbles into one when you read like 5 posts in a row that are all talking about the same thing. I guess what I was thinking was people trying to get a hang of parry timing should be doing both. shakunetsu is an easy way to get started and using the auto parry function will show you how stuff hits to try later.
The differences between those characters almost not worth going over. They might share some basic attributes but the way they function in the games they’re made for is completely different. With parry and charge partitioning Remy can do things guile is not built to do and Guile in his system can do things that would make Remy green with envy.
I think it’s just an endless discussion talking about vaguely similar character’s in different games and how they compare. Someone new to the game would be better off understanding the fundamentals of the 3s system compared to 4. Focus on things like how you can tech out of all (i think) normals/specials/throws. How chaining is common for a variety of characters. Parrying, how it functions and what it allows you to do. Buffering inputs inside of other things. Understanding the options for characters both attacking and defending on wake up.
I don’t think it’s any bit slower to look at a character as they are in their own game and simply try/check out their moves in practice. Then play against (preferably) someone you know so you can try out those moves. My opinion is that this leads to much less frustration down the road as opposed to trying to understand character’s through differences across systems that are largely different.
Really, what does saying Remy has a high and low ‘sonic boom’ tell you if you don’t even understand the rest of the character or the system it’s used in. There are too many differences and it’ll cause more pointless discussion than it’s worth I think. Let people from sf4 draw their own conclusions about these things from the information provided. Saying there’s any link between hugo and zangief is starting someone down the wrong road of thought imho.
What part of what I said is that in response to?
I agree, the vast majority of differences are derived from the fact that Hugo and Remy live by the rules of a vastly-different engine (parries, three wildly-different supers, etc.).
Just look at signature pressure attacks: 'Gief’s Green Hand is designed for a grappler with general mobility problems, whilst Hugo’s Clap is a deliberately-reversed version of the same attack (simply because Hugo can negate poor mobility with parries).
Head to head comparisons between the “compariable” characters may not really help, but I’d bet there would be lots of questions…
Abel vs Alex
Remy vs Guile
Hugo vs Gief
Necro vs Dhalsim
But I think it would be helpful and people will ask FAQ style how the 9 characters present in both games fare between game versions.
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