3S for the SSF4 player..?

[Trini_Judoka]

Hi guys,

sorry if this is covered elsewhere but I’m looking to experiment a bit with 3s in hopes that i can “hold my own” when 3SO arrives. I find the game’s pace is way better than sf4.

Never played it before other than mashing vs the computer years ago in the ani collection.

what do i need to know to make a “backwards” transition?

I find i dash alot which doesn’t seem to have the same effect. I try to quick stand doesn’t seem to work. Tick throws, doesn’t seem as easy to grab the startup of a normal like sf4. Not understanding hit confirms into supers. LOL. I don’t know what else to say, I just find myself playing the game as if it was sf4.

[pherai]

Backdash has no invincibility. You can’t mash things out during blockstun because releasing back while you’re in block stun will make you stop blocking. You can’t react to the same situations the same way everytime (can’t uppercut every jump in).

Other than that, just keep playing to get used to the pacing and feel of the engine. Practice your combos, hit confirms will get there eventually. If you need character specific advice, hit the character sub forum.

[Joe_The_Condor]

You’re going to have to sell your soul to the Devil, and not Calypso like how pherai did.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Z2L-2cOIwAc/0.jpg

[Alexander]

Honestly if you’re just going to mash you’re better off playing something else. This is what worries me about 3SO (aside from Netcode) that all of the SF4 people are going to be playing this with Ryu/Ken and mashing for dear life. Finding good people to play with will be a nightmare.

[RadioGamma]

what do i need to know to make a “backwards” transition?

Now I don’t play SSF4 (though I understand how the game works and watch tons of videos)… but:

There is no “backwards” transition. If anything, treat it as a completely different game despite being a Street Fighter title. I daresay it is a harder game to pick up than SSF4 since fireballs don’t give you nearly as big of an advantage as they do in SSF4 (due to parrying), meaning Ryu, the beginner-favourite character, isn’t as easy to pick up as he is in SSF4. I suggest you start from square 1 (since you don’t even understand hit-confirming… Although I’m not entirely sure what you meant by that, since hit-confirming is in SSF4 as well) and look up basic guides such as the ones on TheShend’s YouTube channel, the SRK 3s wiki, and threads here (pretty sure there’s a newbie’s guide to 3s thread somewhere on the first page here). Get a friend of similar skill level to play with, which is how you’ll learn basic things about the game, and how to counter basic tactics etc… Then play against better players and find out just how bad you are at the game and how impossible it seems to beat these players. Mashing a lucky win out against a better player is possible in SSF4, but it’s near impossible in 3rd Strike. You’ll learn a LOT by playing better players, although it’s better to do this once you’ve understood at least the basics of the game. I find that the good 3s players like to “troll” newer players by repeating a single move or tactic over and over (i.e. grab you continuously in the corner or spam overheads), but this is a good thing for the new player since it acts as a training drill of some sort whereby you won’t win unless you find out how to react to that particular move… And if you don’t, you can simply ask questions on the board here.

Apart from the very fundamental aspects of Street Fighter, don’t expect to have much of an edge over other players new to 3s just because you’ve played SSF4 before. It’s a completely different game.

[Tebbo]

Honestly if you’re just going to mash you’re better off playing something else. This is what worries me about 3SO (aside from Netcode) that all of the SF4 people are going to be playing this with Ryu/Ken and mashing for dear life. Finding good people to play with will be a nightmare.

Do you not have friends…? If that’s what worries you then you really shouldn’t be worried. Just play with friends/people you meet who are decent and not annoying/dicks.

To the OP: Don’t push buttons. You’ll lose really fast if you’re pushing buttons at times when you’re not sure what the outcome can be. It’s a completely different game. Forget everything about SF4 if you want to play 3S because almost nothing is shared between the two. Quick stand is pressing down when you land on the ground. Hit confirms are hit confirms in any game, I don’t really understand what you’re talking about here. I assume you mean you don’t know any hit confirms. In which case just experiment/look around the forums. Throws are completely different. In SF4 it’s really easy to tech if you anticipate at all. The window is huge. It’s much smaller in 3S and there are no real startup animations.

The biggest thing is not pushing buttons/pushing on the joystick without a really good reason. There’s no autoblock since you can parry so you can’t just mash shit out and hope the opponent leaves a gap in their attacks. You have to guess/anticipate it and time it. You can’t mash on wakeup either so get used to being able to time on wakeup, or not time PERFECTLY but you need to be a lot more precise than in SF4.

Time spent in 3S directly relates to doing better. Experience/knowledge is important because the characters have a lot of unique qualities that you need to remember because it changes how attacks work. Playing a lot is the only way to get comfortable with these things. Timing for parrying is really important and that varies for every attack so you really need to play a lot to get comfortable with the speed of different things, what moves are multi-hit, what the parry timing is, etc. It’s much less consistent than SF4 in that way. In SF4 people complain about a few combos that only work on certain characters, things like that. In 3S that’s pretty normal. Good luck, it’s a great game. SF4 is really a basic and shallow game by comparison. There isn’t that much to consider at any one point. 3S is incredibly intense because the whole game is on a razor’s edge.

[bodler]

3s taught me how to be a man

[Trini_Judoka]

I suggest you start from square 1 (since you don’t even understand hit-confirming… Although I’m not entirely sure what you meant by that, since hit-confirming is in SSF4 as well)

Hit confirms are hit confirms in any game, I don’t really understand what you’re talking about here. I assume you mean you don’t know any hit confirms.

What i meant was, I’m used to doing multi hit combos into a super or ultra in s/sf4. Whereas replays of 3S I’ve seen it almost appears that a super art was done “randomly” or as a “reversal” and sometimes connected only after a single hit… Could be just that i don’t understand the game mechanics and its all foreign to me, it just looks that way to the naked eye.

Other question I have is the super art selection, is this comparable to ultra selection where its largely match up based or the selection more personal skill based/play-style based?

[Tebbo]

What i meant was, I’m used to doing multi hit combos into a super or ultra in s/sf4. Whereas replays of 3S I’ve seen it almost appears that a super art was done “randomly” or as a “reversal” and sometimes connected only after a single hit… Could be just that i don’t understand the game mechanics and its all foreign to me, it just looks that way to the naked eye.

Other question I have is the super art selection, is this comparable to ultra selection where its largely match up based or the selection more personal skill based/play-style based?

I’m not even sure how many hit confirms there are and they all depend on who you’re using of course. The thing is there are some normals that cancel into supers that will allow you to hit confirm just off that one attack because the hitstun is long enough.

If you’re trying to land a super you always want to buffer the first qcf so that if the normal connects you just need to do one more and you’ll super.

To my knowledge there aren’t many hit confirm combos that look like they do in sf4. Like 3 jabs into something into ultra. The hitstun on super cancellable moves is just long enough to do it off one move. Watch Chun Li and you’ll see what I mean with how long hitstun is off some of her moves.

Super arts aren’t quite like ultras I wouldn’t say. They’re similar but I think just due to how ultras work they’re different in a few ways. Supers in 3S are (afaik) more matchup independent than ultras are in sf4. Most characters have 2 useful supers and usually 1 that stands out as the ‘obvious’ pick. Some characters don’t though like Oro, Ryu, Remy, Yang, Necro, etc.

For instance Urien. Aegis Reflector is a tremendous super with amazing potential and due to it having 2 relatively short stocks is an obvious choice. It’s like genei jin for Yun, it completely changes him and makes him a lot more dangerous than he is without it. His other two supers are OK but offer nothing over the potential of aegis so there is really no reason to choose them. Someone like Oro though has 2 great supers that operate completely differently so he has no obvious pick and really it’s up to player preference.

In general I think the supers that are simply combos are not as useful. Usually those supers have like 2 stocks and medium length bars. You need to consider how much EX you can use too. So like corkscrew with dudley is great because it’s got 3 stocks and a shortish bar and it has a quick startup and a good hitbox.

You need to consider the bar length, how many stocks, the damage, what it will connect off of, how it hits in the corner, startup, etc. Basically a lot of things. The only reason some selections are almost always the same super is because they’re overwhelmingly good. Ken’s SA3 is amazing because of the same reasons as Dudley’s. His other’s just don’t do enough damage to use over SA3 which is why you see SA3 99% of the time. His other supers aren’t bad, they’re just not as good.

[let_blood_run]

Just play a lot and watch videos.

[p1nkt1t5]

Forget everything about SF4 if you want to play 3S because almost nothing is shared between the two.

Not true. Basic fundamental stuff is shared amongst all Street Fighter games. i.e. Spacing, punishing, defense*, offensive pressure.

SF4 provides you an easier environment to learn the basic fundamentals of Street Fighter without all the overhead. @ the same time it teaches you some really bad habits(i.e. mashing) which is what I think you meant to say leave alone.

• not including parrying. Just plain old blocking and throw teching/softening.

What i meant was, I’m used to doing multi hit combos into a super or ultra in s/sf4. Whereas replays of 3S I’ve seen it almost appears that a super art was done “randomly” or as a “reversal” and sometimes connected only after a single hit… Could be just that i don’t understand the game mechanics and its all foreign to me, it just looks that way to the naked eye.

Other question I have is the super art selection, is this comparable to ultra selection where its largely match up based or the selection more personal skill based/play-style based?

That is SF4s combo system. Its to teach new players, how to combo. So weak, weak/strong/hard/special/super, super for all characters(or majority). So, it sort of has a tree like structure to it that is universal for all characters.

3S combo system is different, where your goal is to land your hardest cancellable/linkable normal into special or super. This makes it so that matches do not degenerate into a jab/short fest, since you can’t really do much damage off of them(correct me if I am wrong 3s vets). Intern this forces players to take calculated risks, which makes the game more exciting(debatable).

[Alexander]

Do you not have friends…? If that’s what worries you then you really shouldn’t be worried. Just play with friends/people you meet who are decent and not annoying/dicks.

Of course, but that’s only a handful of dudes spread out over different consoles. Totally understand your point, but you can’t tell me that you enjoy fighting mostly bad players all day.

And yeah, I was a little harsh to the OP. In fairness he admitted to mashing, so I remain skeptical of anyone who loves mashing and wants to play 3S. My advice would be this: Study the SRK WIKI on 3S, check the boards for the character(s) you’re into, play with every character and see who you like, don’t base you’re opinion on Tier Lists, go into training mode and don’t come out until you’ve got down some essential combos, play the fuck out of the game and always ask questions. Never mash, never do random moves just because, Super on wakeup will only get you so far. That said, if you put in the work, the reward is fucking worth it. Because 3S really improves you’re overall skill in fighters. It’s a fact. You learn everything you need to know in 3S.

[Tebbo]

Not true. Basic fundamental stuff is shared amongst all Street Fighter games. i.e. Spacing, punishing, defense*, offensive pressure.

That’s like saying strafing, reloading when not shooting and taking cover are shared between Halo and Halo 2. It’s a pointless statement. Those aren’t even specific to SF or even the fighting game genre. I could say spacing, punishing, defense and offensive pressure are skills taught by Winning Eleven, or even the aforementioned Halo.

The things that MATTER and are worth actually noting are completely different between the two. Forget what works in sf4 because by and large it means absolutely nothing in 3s.

Start clean if you want to avoid frustration.

3S combo system is different, where your goal is to land your hardest cancellable/linkable normal into special or super. This makes it so that matches do not degenerate into a jab/short fest, since you can’t really do much damage off of them(correct me if I am wrong 3s vets). Intern this forces players to take calculated risks, which makes the game more exciting(debatable).

Interesting. I think Ken, Akuma, Chun, Dudley and I’m sure others would like to have a word with you about cancelling off of shorts and jabs.

[mwelsh]

pherai covered most of the important differences between the SF4 and 3S engine. You can’t mash during a combo or blockstring like you can in SF4, that’s probably the most important. You’ve got to keep holding down back.

The inputs are stricter, so if you are used to doing things like df d df jiggle for shoryuken, you’ll have to retrain yourself.

Reversals are harder to time, and in general things like wakeup uppercut aren’t as good. In SF4 most DPs are invincible until they hit. But in 3S, most non-EX dragon punches are vulnerable before the first hit, so a meaty attack will beat it. On the other hand, 3s wakeup supers aren’t nearly as bad as wakeup ultra in SF4, so you’ll see a lot of beginner and intermediate players do wakeup super.

SF4 is full of link heavy BNB combos, e.g cr. lp > cr. mp > cr.mp > cr.hk, but 3S doesn’t really have these kind of combos. So you’re right, there’s a lot more focus on small hit confirms… Ken examples: cr.mk xx super; short short xx super; mp > super; and b.mk overhead > super.

I think one really important thing you don’t have to do in SF4 so much is pianoing the buttons. This is the key to doing most of the super combos easily in 3S, ensures that your super comes out as fast as possible. e.g. Dudley f+hk overhead, qcf x2 confirm that it hit them crouching, drum your fingers across lp mp hp, and your super should hopefully come out as early as possible for the combo. No plinking in 3s, just pianoing, which actually makes things much easier.

Parrying just comes with practice. Eventually you’ll have to consciously think about what moves you are poking with, whether they are parryable low, high or both. If you keep using the same attack (or worse, an attack that can be parried both ways), you’ll get caught in a lot of peoples frame traps, get parried, and eat a huge combo.

Otherwise, the basic flow of the engine is the same. Cancels work similarly, throws work similarly (lots more kara throws in 3s), the spacing and mixups. Good luck :tup:

[pherai]

You’re going to have to sell your soul to the Devil, and not Calypso like how pherai did.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Z2L-2cOIwAc/0.jpg

How did you know my secret? [media=youtube]v0PWFrMZch8&t=2m55s"[/media]

What i meant was, I’m used to doing multi hit combos into a super or ultra in s/sf4. Whereas replays of 3S I’ve seen it almost appears that a super art was done “randomly” or as a “reversal” and sometimes connected only after a single hit… Could be just that i don’t understand the game mechanics and its all foreign to me, it just looks that way to the naked eye.

Other question I have is the super art selection, is this comparable to ultra selection where its largely match up based or the selection more personal skill based/play-style based?

I’ll tackle this as simply as possible.

-Moves have shorter hit stun in 3s, so the majority of links you see are 1 normal into super. Its a bit tighter timing to react to. There are some techniques that allow psuedo hit confirms (punishing whiffs, reversal punishes, DED) that can make it appear random to a new player.

-Yes, super selection mirrors ultra selection in that sense, although player preference plays a pretty big role too.

[Lostintheflurry]

the biggest thing to understand in a broad sweeping over generalized way at first is that 3s is almost entirely about landing your hit into super and confirming it for most of the cast.

watch ken mirror matches for a while at first. dont bother with the 3s unique stuff like urien/denjin ryu/ yuns genei jin. Just watch ken for a while.

also something huge in 3s which is almost absent for sf4 is PUNISHMENT.

3s is a game of punish. punish whiff, punish mistake, punish blocked super, punish uppercuts.

[Trini_Judoka]

Ok frame data.

If you didn’t know SF4 players are OBSESSED about frame data. It all about the frame trap to counter-hit combos for huge damage. And as a grappler main, its critical i know down to the very frame the window I have for punishment.

So far, it doesn’t seem that 3S players are as obsessed about frames. And the wiki has most of that info missing. Is it just me?

By the way, everyone’s responses have been really really great, big thanks

And for the record, i WAS a masher vs the computer but once i got serious about SF4 in 09, obviously that went out the window. (Well i guess maybe not obvious since sf4 is mash friendly)

[pherai]

frame data is undervalued by 3s players, although its more important for some characters than others. Ken will probably get more mileage out of it than Hugo.

That and most players will just opt to bait a move to parry instead of try to set up a counter hit.

[aku]

Ok frame data.

If you didn’t know SF4 players are OBSESSED about frame data. It all about the frame trap to counter-hit combos for huge damage. And as a grappler main, its critical i know down to the very frame the window I have for punishment.

So far, it doesn’t seem that 3S players are as obsessed about frames. And the wiki has most of that info missing. Is it just me?

Nah, I guess we just procrastinate when it comes to the SRK wiki. There ARE sources for 3S frame data, but like pherai said, some characters can make better usage of frame data than others. Ken relies heavily on links and reversals so Ken players will benefit more from frame data than grapplers in the game…though it may help Hugo with reversal 720s against certain close pokes…it does reach very far.

Try browsing through the 3rd Strike Frame Data thread for some very useful info.

[p1nkt1t5]

That’s like saying strafing, reloading when not shooting and taking cover are shared between Halo and Halo 2. It’s a pointless statement. Those aren’t even specific to SF or even the fighting game genre. I could say spacing, punishing, defense and offensive pressure are skills taught by Winning Eleven, or even the aforementioned Halo.

The things that MATTER and are worth actually noting are completely different between the two. Forget what works in sf4 because by and large it means absolutely nothing in 3s.

Start clean if you want to avoid frustration.

fair enough, what are the things that matter?

Interesting. I think Ken, Akuma, Chun, Dudley and I’m sure others would like to have a word with you about cancelling off of shorts and jabs.

My bad, I did not explain what I was thinking properly. But Lostintheflurry and mwelsh did.