Honestly it’s not that hard to learn the basic combos for 3S. It’s not like you’re required to learn Dudley or Urien’s juggles to even stand a chance. You could do well with most of the cast so long as you know the combos that work best for you, the rest is just knowing matchups. I’ll be honest; most of the players on GGPO are terrible and only know how to mash buttons. So if you’re getting beaten by those guys, you’ll need to step your shit up. Or just use Ken, to each his own.
wow…I would love to see you beast on cruise, tenren, kristopher, greatest, kickassguy, bars and hooks, exo-tech, dyne, lane, thetenkensoujiro, blaqsrk, anti-shoto, etc, etc, which are just some of the better players who play on GGPO.
GGPO has some of the best players period. When it comes to xbox and ps, I doubt i will find even near the competition I have on GGPO. You know why GGPO players are so good, because there you find the most hardcore 3S players who love and play the game everyday. And I know for a fact a few of them that have won large tournies in USA/etc.
Trini, yes, SFIV sucks horribly. A shitty, shitty fighter that Capcom spent most of its money on campaigning than actual gameplay, etc so it could make a shitload of money and get Capcom back in the fighting game business (which it succeeded). Now they will revamp it and revamp it and revamp it. costumes (oh, giddy), most popular chars (oh,giddy), and eye candy (more giddy) is SFIV’s main focus.
Its a pathetic and boring game that Capcom is trying to make better. well…good luck…maybe after 50 tries and the game is totally different. The reason why people play it is because THEY ARE DUMBASSES. people are fucking stupid and go with the latest trends, especially kids who don’t know any better.
when 3s hits online systems, I hope most of you are wrong and it DOES revitalize the scene, because honestly around here and down in most of south florida, and some of cali, I know for a fact most gamers are yearning for 3S over any other fighters.
Listen to aku and Tebbo. They can help out more with great wisdom of 3s without the insults like myself. Trini, it almost seems that you are here to basically troll and argue rather than get good, solid answers, because every time knowledgeable players give you good, solid answers, you just want to troll and argue.
How many people are on 3S GGPO? Maybe 90 at peak hours? So total amount of North Americans playing is probably closer to 50 throughout a good day. Of those I would say maybe a dozen people are good and can go to tournies. Maybe a dozen. That’s not a pretty good average. That means you have to wade through nearly 40 SSF4 players to get to someone who knows what they’re doing.
I think Art may be right, Trini probably is trolling. He never once said what character he’s using. Honestly if you’re using the shoto’s (which beginners use 9 times out of 10) you can’t bitch and moan because the Shoto’s have answers to every situation.
Troll? Dood whatever. Only think I’ve argued was what should be in 3so. I simply have an opinion on what could potentially revitalize the franchise. I don’t think an 11 year old game can do that. But to each his own. Purists want that, ok, its whatever. That’s probably what capcom will do anyway since it doesn’t have the resources otherwise.
Everything here is a matter of opinion. “Like people are dumbasses for playing sf4” I said before and I’ll say again. For every 1 person that played sf4 and went back to sf3, there are 5 that left the game behind. When the smoke clears, if the game is so horrible, people wont be playing it in 2 years. Hype can only take a game so far.
Not here to ruffles any feathers, so no one should be that sensitive about the opinion of one 3s noob. I didn’t come here to get bashed on the game that brought me into the fcg. I LOVE SSF4, sorry that you don’t. I came here for a 20,000 feet overview of the differences between the games because I want to love 3s too. Some tangents along the way, but that’s to be expected in a forum community. All toward the end goal of understanding 3s better (and why people are so GOLLUM FROM LOR about it too).
Stop writing essays dude. Tell us what you’re character(s) you’re using, then go to the character-specific forums, and ask those guys (nicely) what to do in this and that situation. Stop complaining that 3S is hard and be a man.
Thinks back to Ono’s comment "If you are new to sf4 and you train and get good enough to play in tournaments, THEN you can try 3rd strike
Good stuff.
I’m going to bypass the rebalancing stuff that’s popped-up yet again, and return to the original concept of learning 3S from a SF4 perspective.
Trini, in my view, this is the fundamental technical difference between SF4 and 3S: option-parries. Not simply parries, but parries as option-selects. That is the most important ‘game-changing’ mechanic in my opinion.
Tldr: playing 3S to a decent standard essentially means having a good-enough knowledge of your opponent’s given options and tendencies that you can stay a step ahead of their parry attempts and punish their play accordingly. Learning to play around others’ parries is JUST as important as learning to parry yourself, and opens-up intricate bluffing games within footsies and baiting/punishing.
If that doesn’t make much sense, I’ve explained it in more detail here:
more info
[details=Spoiler]I’m probably not going to explain this very well, so try to bear with me (and if you already know a lot of this, sorry in case it seems patronising):
As parries do not have a whiff animation, they usually (but not always) carry a high reward if they are successful compared to the risk of attempting them and not receiving a parry: simply tapping forwards or down in anticipation of an attack takes a fraction of a second, and if you didn’t accomplish a successful parry then you can instantly return to a guarding position.
The natural course of development means (for example) that a player discovers that a shoto’s Shoryu can be parried high or low, and if they score a knock-down on that shoto, then an attack against the shoto on the shoto’s wake-up is often best done after a quick tap of forwards or down in case they threw out a surprise Shoryu. If they did throw out a Shoryu, you’ve at least parried the first hit easily, if they didn’t Shoryu then your attack will strike them and that’s another tree of options presented, but anyways… you can see the potentially-massive benefits from a simple tap of the stick.
Developing this further, a player learns to completely litter their play with these option-parries as a matter of habit to scoop-up any careless attacks thrown out by the opponent to swing as many situations as possible in to their favour.
So most parries are not accidents, but are based on some kind of anticipation. Even though it’s possible to parry Chun’s SA2 on reaction from some distances, for the most-part any full-parries of Chun’s SA2 will have been initiated by a well-timed anticipative parry.
This opens-up an interesting aspect of play from intermediate standard onwards, whereby players are trying to AVOID each other’s parries as much as they are trying to simultaneously parry the opponent. Much standard 3S play revolves around anticipating your opponent’s anticipation, and punishing that predictability accordingly. So if a player sticks out certain situational option-parries as a force of habit, it’s possible to turn that back on them to your advantage.
A classic example is Urien vs Hugo: a sharp Hugo player will parry-360 most predictable Tackles that a Urien player throws at him (it’s not hard to reaction-parry Tackles, but option-parries are common), so a useful tactic for Urien to preserve positioning and buy time is to throw out a Tackle, and immediately upon being parried, cancel straight in to an EX Aegis Reflector which has start-up fast enough to beat a 360 (I can’t remember if it’s possible to be fast enough to 360 through it, though 720 definitely works :party:).
To turn this on its head though, Urien has no Shoryu-esque equivalent on his wake-up, and will find most of his wake-up reversals beaten by meaty attacks. If Hugo has a Gigas charged and has scored a knockdown on Urien, Hugo can rain Claps down on Urien, and if Urien attempts a parry then Hugo can cancel the Clap straight in to a 720, grabbing Urien right out of parry-freeze before he’s successfully retaliated. (Urien can get around this, but that’s just an example.)[/details]
3s is too hard for most random players. Most people will just suck ass at the goddamn game, it’s easy to see. And when they get their asses beat over and over, not able to really fight back, that turns players away. Yes, everyone loves how the 3s community is so concentrated, that there aren’t scrubs lining up at the arcade, but it’s for that same reason that there’s practically no 3s scene in most of the US. It sucks. BTW I won’t play on GGPO, just bullshit for the most part. And because of that, I practice against maybe 2 people that are worth a damn. Ah, sucks. Wish I could go to Japan regularly, haha.
SF4 is inherently an easy game to play. It’s simple and entertaining. Whether or not SSF4 was a step back or not is purely a matter of personal opinion. Both versions get real stupid, real quick, but for different reasons. I hate the game, honestly, but it’s popular here so I almost ‘have’ to participate. Whatever. At least Yang is being released. Still a stupid game overall. Both games have their bullshit but SF4 edges 3s out.
Anyway, frame data = not important in 3s unless you’re actually good at the game. You think that frame data will help you learn faster? Fine, go ahead and waste your time learning numbers when instead you need to focus on actual gameplay. Frame data is way more important in SF4 than it is in 3s. People need to understand that to learn 3s, you have to play. A LOT. Especially now since all that’s left are people that know how to actually play the game.
As a side note, the 3s community is a funny thing. A couple years back, before SF4 came out, a lot of 3s players were just fucking elitist dicks. Didn’t care for new players, but now that SF4 comes out, then now people are more accepting? A little late, I think. Also, those guys that are still elitist dicks regardless of what SF4 did - I respect that. You know who you are. :]
If that was too long, then here’s the synopsis: SF4 is gay, pherai is gayer, shoutouts to Denjin! And C Royd.
I think 3S players are dicks to nubs just because their mashing is offensive to us. If that makes any sense. You try to take the time to learn the game, get inside the head of your opponent, learn the ins and outs of your character and here comes Joe Schmo who picks a Shoto and proceeds to mash for dear life. Never learning from their mistakes, and ending the match by saying ‘lol u suck’ weather or nor they win or lose.
SSF4 did more harm to 3S community than anything else.
I’m not a dick to noobs, only to people who complain about lag on their own convenient terms.
Alexander - you talk about them not learning from their mistakes: it takes a long time to understand the parry system, and a noob is probably not going to suddenly figure out the missing piece of the puzzle (or why it’s even missing) without spending considerable time and effort with the game. Especially online, where it’s all casual and has no importance. Why take time to get good at something unless it looks and sounds cool?
Ignore the ‘lol u suck’ players and encourage the noobs that are genuinely interested, whether they mash or not.
I agree about not depending on frame-data to find your way in this game, by the way. It’s much more important to ‘feel’ your way through the game, which will open parries up to you far more quickly than numbers will. The game is so fast-paced, numbers won’t mean much until you’ve played for a good while.
by not learning from their mistakes I think he might be referring to wake up uppercut noobs and walk short short wait low forward noobs.
That’s who I was talking about - the players that come undone because they think reversals are the only useful offensive trick and have no awareness of the actual amount of options available to them, and probably won’t learn from their mistakes very quickly because they’re new to the game and aren’t taking it seriously.
we should just try to get back all the 3s players we USED to have. i miss ffa hayday 
jam packed!!!
Exactly, like I realised about a week ago you can parry crouch tech jab on wake up and it will beat, well alot of shit. Btw, nice parry guide.
Cheers mate, yeah that’s exactly what I mean, defensive option-selects become the norm after you’ve played for a while, and once it becomes clear to your opponent that you have that in your arsenal, their attack patterns will change to try and work around your parry tactics.
I enjoyed watching your trapeze act on Tokido.
This is what I mean by not getting caught in a bad learning situation. One where you can continue to use tactics that don’t work once people understand more because your opponent keeps letting you. That can stunt your progress because you get trained to think some things are safer than they actually are.
It feels good buffering parries I think. It feels awesome when you get into range with say Hugo (who I’ve been checking out for really the first time in several years) and expecting a poke, start a clap, get the parry and get the clap. That’s incredibly satisfying and it isn’t some difficult technical situation. That situation is the result of good reading and using parry “correctly”. In general I can’t quantify anything that makes 3S better than the other fighting games I’ve played over the years. Preference is subjective but if I were to try to I would say it simply has a stronger sense of rhythm and a better feeling to it.
Exactly what I would say.
“Rhythm” is definitely one of the words I would use to describe the flow of play in 3S.
Nice.