How is that balance patch significant when they did not touch Ryu or Raven? Fixing Rufus’ dive kick which is completely broken is not a significant patch for me. When you do significant changes other tiers appear. Imagine doing that when 12 characters have not been tested yet. The game will be completely balanced by the end of the year, that’s my personal opinion. All they will do by then is fixing infinites and bugs.
Yeah, no.
Tournaments aren’t played online, and tournaments have been keeping games alive and kicking long before online was even a thing. Just because it exists now doesn’t mean that it suddenly dictates the viability of a game. Plenty of games have survived with shitty online. As far as I’ve been told by people who are hardcore into the game, KoF13 has really shitty online as well.
Because what makes Ryu and Raven “broken” isn’t as clearly apparent. Everyone can claim and quote how they’d fix those characters but the simple fact of the matter is it is a lot easier to modify characters with one or two things about them that are disproportionately designed than it is to try and take down an entire character. If they start doing haphazard edits to entire movesets without putting real thought and work into making the changes meaningful and reasonable we’ll just end up with a character roster that changes faster than people can even learn to use characters and that’s a good thing.
Major changes aren’t going to happen until after EVO – which is how it should be. Every Capcom game that comes out before EVO goes without major patches until after. Marvel 3 and SSF4 both followed that plan – I don’t understand why anyone expects them to be changing the game drastically after only a few short months and with one of the largest tournaments for it just around the corner.
Post EVO changes will be part of the Capcom’s tournament circuit for the game that starts after EVO and ends in December.
What’s broken about Ryu or Raven…? Donkey kick pressure? Jab pressure? That shit isn’t broken IMO, it’s just abuseable. It’s like you talk in complete opposites, it’s throwing me off. “Fixing Rufus’ divekick which is completely broken is not significant.” What? Fixing something broken isn’t significant? changing it so it could be -4 on block (depending on translation) isn’t significant? These small changes actually effect gameplay and change matchups.
“The game will be balanced by the end of the year but all they’ll do is fix infinites and bugs”?..You must have meant that it won’t be balanced because all they’ll fix before the vita version is infinite’s and bugs, which is already proven false by this announced balance patch.
We don’t know yet if they made changes to other characters, we only know of the ones they announced. They didn’t just fix bugs, they adjusted frame data also. We have yet to see if they did the same for the rest of the cast. If so then we have a significant balance patch most definitely.This is what the MK and SCV games have been doing and it seems to be appreciated by the community and has changed tier lists over time to help the lower tier characters (from what I’ve heard anyways). Also like ViolentDjango points out we’re probably going to see the more significant changes post-EVO.
And assuming that they aren’t testing/balancing the 12 new characters while they make edits to the first round cast is kind of ignorant IMO. That’s like saying they didn’t make the new chars in UMVC3 or Super or AE balanced because they weren’t tested with the vanilla chars. Like I said before they are probably trying to make the game balanced and near-perfect as possible before the vita version goes final so that they don’t have to make patches for both versions once the vita one is out. Part of those 12 characters being done but locked is that Capcom can keep tweaking them on the back end without their glitches and balance issues being public. As the main cast gets tweaked they can make appropriate tweaks to the new chars, and when we finally get the unlock DLC all the changes they’ve made to those chars since the original release will probably be included with that download. It’s very, very doubtful that they are just letting those characters sit there as is until the vita version is released and then they’ll make an update afterwords.
More on topic is that we may see gem balance changes soon. Since they aren’t being used for EVO it won’t conflict with any of that so we may be seeing the changes sooner than expected (fingers crossed). Let’s hope pretty much all the auto gems get their costs doubled or more.
This is probably the most important post in this thread. Remember, if you want fighting games to survive as a genre, you need to allow new players an opportunity to learn. None of my personal friends play fighting games because some prick wiped the floor with their ass the first time they played, so they don’t even want to try. Winning is great, but when you’re the only competitor, a win is irrelevant. I don’t claim to be very good at sfxt, but I can hold my own fairly well. Gems are in this game. Deal with it, or play mvc3. Most people play with 2 chars, rely on 2 combos, (zero in tvc, anyone?) and then hop onto a forum to bitch and whine about the less ‘skilled’ players having an equalizer available to them. If you don’t like the gem, don’t use it. If you don’t like other people using them, adapt. Or play another game.
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No ones complaining about the gems itself, rather its about the inability to avoid players that do use them, online. If there was a gem filter, then this thread wouldn’t even exist, that’s the problem.
These gems dont teach new players squat. What, it let’s them know that they coulda blocked? The game can tell you when you could have blocked already, its called taking damage.
No, if a game truly wanted you to learn, there would be a real tutorial that teaches you the engine and all the little intricacies. And afaik, vf4 and vf4 evo are the only games that succeeded inthis. Not even vf5 did this
Gems are not to teach, its for the casual player that has no desire to learn and wants their quick fix without getting killed, or get some free wins and give then a false sense of domination…
I vehemently disagree. And I probably spelled vehemently wrong twice just now.
Anyway, auto-gems aren’t an equalizer at all - if anything, a newer player is going to find himself more frustrated when they’re still getting mixed up and drained of all their meter, despite having those gems on. Largely, these gems help them very little, which ironically goes against what the philosophy behind them seems to be. The infamous walk-forward blocking, for example… What does that teach them?
The problem comes when players who at least decently understand the game or - better yet - high-level players have the ability to use these gems as well. There is literally no incentive to not use them, aside from working bad habits into one’s game.
As for “l2p” and similar arguments… Sure, people will bitch about who’s high tier and who’s not all the time. It’s the nature of the beast. And personally, I really dislike X-Factor - it’s an artificial way to create comeback scenarios for the sake of having them, IMO.
That said, Auto-guard and Auto-tech are much worse mechanics by far, because there isn’t even an execution requirement involved - just do nothing and it works!
If anything, what newer players need are better tutorials, or just better ways to teach them the games mechanics in general that will keep them engaged. So far, TTT2U’s Combot training uh… thingy sounds like its the best step towards that.
And also, SFxT’s Briefing Room needs to see more use.
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Your argument would have more weight if they restricted Auto block/tech gems to players under lets say 1500 bp online. I know BP doesn’t mean anything, but lets assume that by 1500 BP you should have gotten plenty of matches in to understand the basic fighting game mechanics and that by then you’re not “new to the game.”
The problem lies in that a good player can clearly abuse them in online play. In fact, you take too equally skilled good players, and one of them using the auto assist gems is a huge advantage. Auto assist gems kill entire meta-mechanics of the game: cross ups, footsies, high-lows are made irrelevant.
There tools other than assist gems that can up your game - playing Arcade mode, doing the trials, learning all of the characters move sets, using the training mode record/playback option.
The argument that people should “go play SFxT locally” is flawed when a key feature of a game is playing online. And that argument of “not wanting to try” because you get your ass handed to you is a weak argument. Those types of people won’t want to play any challenging game… nor try for anything remotely difficult in life.
I played a Ryu player last night with a friend, and he successfully auto-blocked 11 attacks with his gems alone. Since on average opening someone up deals about 300 damage, i think it’s safe to say this stupid gem is the equivalent of giving the character and extra 3 to 4 characters of life. COMPLETELY STUPID! A block should be at the very least 1 entire bar!
Yeah, no.
Online really is the meat of this game. It is what 99% of the people who buy this game play. It’s no longer the 90’s; there’s something called the internet. Your logic is the same as saying the meat of Halo or Call of Duty is more dependent on its tournaments than its online play. The majority of consumers who PAY to get this game will care more about playing it online. Most of them probably haven’t even seen a fighting game tournament. If Capcom delivers unsatisfactory online enjoyment (which they are currently doing with their retarded assist gems & deception about Xbox’s co-op capability), it’s going to deter a lot of the consumers from trying out their other fighting games and sticking with this one.
Halo and CoD isn’t held up by its competitive community via tournaments; those games, because they have ALWAYS had superior online tend to last in their own way of their nature. My point was that several fighting games have terrible online even in the current generation and still maintain a solid competitive following and continue to be supported in tournaments – casual consumers don’t keep these games alive in the competitive scene. That’s simple fact.
Frankly, I don’t care if no one ever gets online again with this game, as long as there are tournaments for it people will continue playing it.
I think its absolutely ridiculous that people are trying to dig SFxTK a grave only 2 months after its release and for an unbalanced feature that Capcom has already said they are going to be taking consumer feedback to modify and balance. It’s 2 fucking months in – quit being sensationalists and just let the game run its course. People were just as angry and nihilist about Vanilla Marvel 3 and look how that turned out. At least give the game time to fucking settle in before you start claiming its going somewhere.
No offense, but I think this statement is pretty silly, and selfish. If it wasn’t for playable online(it doesn’t matter if you, personally, think its not playable), on most current gen fighters, I can guarantee you, tourney entrants wouldn’t be nearly as high. While there would still be tourneys, no doubt, the number would be smaller. Online plays a big role in the scene. And to not care if its good or not, yet you want a healthy fgc, is not the way to look at things.
Online is too crucial these days, especially for fighters
My personal lack of concern =/= my opinion on how important it is over all for a game…
You guys are assuming a lot from me trying to point out that SFxT isn’t the only game with bad online. I personally don’t like online at all, doesn’t mean I don’t understand that one of the factors in growing a competitive scene for a game. Even with that, though, plenty of games manage to maintain competitive scenes despite having purportedly bad online.
And again, we’re only 2 months into what is, for all intents and purposes, an experiment with the game’s gameplay. It’s been stated time and time again that Capcom is reviewing people’s stance on gems and when they see how negative it is they’ll do something about it. The issue here is that everyone wants to assume the worst and predict the game’s death when its life cycle hasn’t even really started yet. How many changes had to be made to Vanilla Marvel and its online during its early days just so that it could function properly…?
At this point, assist gems being usable in Ranked is more or less a glitch – and if they actually are taking feedback there’s no way it’s not going to get patched.
A glitch?
Can Capcom do no wrong in your eyes?
I Like how everything boils down to Online being the main selling point to a fighting game now and days…
The biggest complaint right now are these auto gems and it only really effects the online community in wanting to play rank matches, sure it can effect endless battle too but there is alot more control in endless battle as well.
For the sake of argument, im going to be blunt. No Online is not the reason we buy fighting games, if that is your moral stand point then you need to change it, most FG tournaments are offline. Being on a Competitive FG forum you would think that would obvious. Online is just a nice tool to use, it’s not the make it or break it feature in why a FG is considered good(if that was true T6 and KOFXIII would have no chance). I’m not trying to get at you online warriors but it’s just how it’s always been, Online is not meat of the game. If you have no offline scene then your a special case in other words a minority in this issue as we got good players who don’t travel 10-20mins to go to tournaments…That’s sad.
To the OP, No these Gems did not destroy SFxTK, it mite have killed online ranked, but that is a part of the game the community can live without. If you disagree…that’s on you, I’m not seeing the game die in my area, and I still see SFxTK news make it on the front page here…when this game dies because of online ranked matches give me a PM saying I told you so.
I’m normally a pretty chill guy, but goddamn, you’ve gotta pop Capcom’s dick out of your mouth sometime.
When they make a fighter that doesn’t have anything going for it online, get me in touch with the producer because I’d also like to get some of that money he doesn’t want.
As someone that still loves to compete, my time is very limited, so online has to be playable for me to practice. Don’t give me that “neat tool” crap. Quite a few top players greatly benefit from online. And some of then, solely rely on online to stay competitive. It’s extremely important to a lot of people.
You act as though your the only person with a life o_O so ima shut that down right now. If you got the time to play online, had the time to call up your boys and play casuals at your place or his…don’t try to make excuses for online being your lazy tool because you don’t want to drive no where and play anyone.
If I can take 1 or 2 hours out of my time that I could be using to study or practice to go to gatherings or host them, then anyone else can do the same. Most of the time, people do have scenes right next to them, they just never look or are too lazy to look. If online is your only means in staying competitive then it sucks to be you~ If I was you, I would be on that matchmaking thread right now for endless battle…but again thats on you.
Seriously…?
- They’ve already said that they are taking feedback for how to handle the balancing of gems as things move forward.
- All of the feedback for assist gems is completely and wholeheartedly negative, primarily because they disbalance and misrepresent skill levels in online ranked.
- Capcom has a history of doing the single easiest and least labor intensive thing to patch problems out of their games.
- The simplest solution to the Assist Gem issue is to disallow them in online.
The accumulative sum of the previously mentioned 4 things is that they, when patching and balancing begins, simple disallow the use of assist gems in ranked online play – effectively solving the fucking problem as several people against assist gems have already stated would be a solution.
Why don’t you stop acting like a fucking child? What the hell is wrong with you?
I really don’t get how this isn’t clear…
I’m not saying it IS a glitch, I’m saying that for all intents and purposes you may as well consider it one… and as I said earlier in this post – Capcom being the lazy developers they tend to be will patch it the easiest way possible: by disallowing them in ranked matches…
Seriously, why is that such a fucking leap? You guys constantly rag about how lazy and bad they are at programming and yet the simplest, easy solution to the entire problem seems like an astronomical impossibility to you? That doesn’t even make any sense.
And to directly answer your question – I’m not a Capcom kid. They do a fucking ton of wrong by me, that’s why I don’t even really play any of their games seriously. I grew up on Soulcalibur and Virtua Fighter, and it wasn’t even until Marvel 3 that I considered taking any of their games seriously – then after playing it for a while, I decided I hated that game, the way they balanced it, and a lot of the community behind it and promptly moved the fuck on.
So yes, Capcom does a lot of wrong by me with regards to way they handle fighting games. Frankly there’s plenty of shit in SFxTK that I don’t like, but fundamentally I enjoy it as a game and like playing it competitively. Does the fact that I dislike/hate some things about it mean I have to be foaming at the fucking mouth every two seconds over the same old shit? No.
Does it mean I have to be a complete fucking nihilist about the possibility of them actually taking steps to fix the game? No, it does not. Disallowing assist gems in ranked is not only the easy solution to the whole problem, but it is also one of the best, most direct, and most suggested – And its basic enough to be completely within their realm of action within the coming months.
The difference between me and you guys is that I realize the game has only been out for 2 months and I remember how long it takes -every- company, especially Capcom, to actually start making serious changes to things they hadn’t already planned on altering prior to the game’s launch. They only just started looking into feedback to try and figure out what to do – it’s not going to be a 2 or 3 day patching scenario – it’s going to take time and frankly, I’d prefer they put some real effort into fixing this as opposed to haphazardly pumping out a makeshift patch that just makes things worse.
***Sorry that I’m not angry enough for you. ***
I don’t understand how someone could think online is a minor feature in 2012.
The internet gives one the ability to instantly find competition at any time, any day, vs. scheduling a meetup with the tiny amount of local players (unless you happen to live in a large city), driving to some location, and playing once in a blue moon.
I honestly think that if fighting game developers don’t start focusing on their online interfaces and netcode, the genre is going to slide into total obscurity. I think we’re going to see Skullgirls maintain a solid following even though it was made by a tiny developer, simply because they were smart enough to facilitate online play with good netcode and cross platform capability.