zz

[eczangief]

^^^

Godlike blocking and execution, excellent fundamentals-- good footsies (and being smart enough to see where it fits into Mahvel), superior knowledge of counter hit scenarios, good yomi/mental presence, good pacing;

a lot of time looking into subtle effects and move properties, ability to think outside the box and make your own shit up like mobility tricks/ghetto tri-jumps and creating your own solid AA options with normal/special + assist, the ability to manipulate game engine phenomena (unblockable, guardbreak, dummy tracking, character-specific sprite-box interactions, dash momentum);

inside-out-solid knowledge on how Storm/Mag/Sent/Cable and top tier function, understanding of god-tier team chemistry and originality to apply it to the bums and make it work.

Same shit as God tier, but your fundamentals must be stronger and you’ll have to make and execute 2-3x the number of inputs to do what gods can do with 1.

[Tech_Romancer]

^^^

Godlike blocking and execution, excellent fundamentals-- good footsies (and being smart enough to see where it fits into Mahvel), superior knowledge of counter hit scenarios, good yomi/mental presence, good pacing;

a lot of time looking into subtle effects and move properties, ability to think outside the box and make your own shit up like mobility tricks/ghetto tri-jumps and creating your own solid AA options with normal/special + assist, the ability to manipulate game engine phenomena (unblockable, guardbreak, dummy tracking, character-specific sprite-box interactions, dash momentum);

inside-out-solid knowledge on how Storm/Mag/Sent/Cable and top tier function, understanding of god-tier team chemistry and originality to apply it to the bums and make it work.

Same shit as God tier, but your fundamentals must be stronger and you’ll have to make and execute 2-3x the number of inputs to do what gods can do with 1.

Good shit, man. Sounds just what I need to work on.

[Daddyneptune]

My man is spitting yoga flames in here. :tup: :tup:

[insanelee]

potter, you didnt answer my question asshole.

bronson

[Robust]

potter, you didnt answer my question asshole.

bronson

that’s because you’re a joker

edit: if you read my posts, I actually did.

Learn to read vietnam

[Preppy]

How do you learn to adapt to play that well on bad sticks and bad buttons? =\

[insanelee]

if you posted in vietnamese, i woulda understood it. POUND THAT HAIL POTTAH

bronson

[BlackHeartKing]

This has actually been an interesting read. Alright I’ve got a question or two or three for you.

• Who are the players that you consider to be top players, and what are their best qualities that make to so?

• Who are players that you think are closing the gap on being top players (if you know of any) and what are the things that they need to work on to get to that point?

• Who’s the best Blackheart player you’ve ever played? bats eyelashes

[Remix1213]

SNIP.

Honestly I think blocking is overrated imho, I only block when i have no other choice but to but if i can avoid stuff i rather do that. Noone has D in marvel cause eventually you get opened up, why stay in one spot trying to block bullshit? Thanks but no thanks…:shake:

[Robust]

This has actually been an interesting read. Alright I’ve got a question or two or three for you.

• Who are the players that you consider to be top players, and what are their best qualities that make to so?

• Who are players that you think are closing the gap on being top players (if you know of any) and what are the things that they need to work on to get to that point?

• Who’s the best Blackheart player you’ve ever played? bats eyelashes

I don’t like telling players their best qualities… here are top-players (because they consistently place at the top): chris s, wong, sanford, yipes, soo, chunk, bill, clockw0rk, crizzle, erik, combo, few more i forgot

I also don’t like telling top-players their strengths or how mid-level players can improve. Why? Because if I have to play them in tournament I want all the advantages I can get. Maybe i’ll help via pm.

Best Blackheart is that mexican guy that used to own sin for like 3 years

[BlackHeartKing]

that’s cool man, I can understand that.

lmfao @ "that mexican guy"
I had props to “that mexican guy” in my signature for years lol

[AK]

I hear ya on the Cable bit. I don’t see him being used much at CF besides SmoothViper and Kevin.

I also think Cable is somewhat ‘difficult’ to use because he is largely based on spacing tactics where if you’re wrong (like a missed sj. jab viper beam), you lose the match. Stuff like ‘if they block your sj. fierce while in their own SJ, you get jab viper beam 2x on the way down’ all have to be learned on your own or by watching good Cable players (of which there are few around).

If somebody made Magnetro-style videos that explain many scenarios for Cable and with his various assists, that would help to see more Cable players.

Then again, I think Magnetro could make some serious strategy videos with his editing style (freeze frame and explanation) that would bring everyone up to speed if they’re not in the MvC2 hotspots of the country. His other videos are pretty sick.

[dereklearnslow]

I’m not going to tell you how to beat cable because hes my fav character.

sent vs. sent is a complex match up, I could write pages on it, but i’d rather not. There are little nuances/tricks that can be used even at high levels to make the match up basic, but i’m not trying to reveal EVERYTHING I know. Its in the videos. Sorry, bros

I give you props for helping out so far, but as James Chen mentioned in his blog, this is the kind of attitude that is holding marvel back as a whole.

God forbid anybody not on the EC/WC learn some high level strats and force ‘Top’ players to adapt and get better.

[Preppy]

I clearly don’t have any execution whatsoever, but I know I hold back from even telling locals about a lot of the tricks I know. I’ve started doing so in the past couple months, but … first of all, it helps you win by knowing things that others don’t; and second of all you don’t really know if people want to hear it since maybe they already know and just don’t do it. I don’t want to assume people are dumb(?) or not seeing what I’m seeing. =\

I think if people asked more (in person) they’d probably learn more. =\

[Gasp]

what uses do reflys have aside from lockdown and flashy asssss combos

ps i play santhrax sscable

[Tech_Romancer]

I clearly don’t have any execution whatsoever, but I know I hold back from even telling locals about a lot of the tricks I know.

What kind of tricks? Have you thought up anything really groundbreaking since the 2004 lanwerx and olympia stuff? Just curious; because I haven’t really seen anything new.

[dereklearnslow]

first of all, it helps you win by knowing things that others don’t; and second of all you don’t really know if people want to hear it since maybe they already know and just don’t do it. I don’t want to assume people are dumb(?) or not seeing what I’m seeing. =\

Well I can understand if x person doesn’t want to feel dumb, or didn’t ask in the first place, but Knyghtfall did ask a question. And although he was met with some very good answers, tough luck about cable and sentinel.

I don’t get that attitude, as the better player will win regardless, (although Potter brings up good points about Magneto randomness that I am half n half about, so meh.)

BUT STILL.

Like I said before, James Chen has a great post on his blog about how most Marvel players have too much pride and don’t share secrets because they’re more focused about winning than bettering the community. It’s a bit outdated (and lengthy) but worth the read imho.

http://jchensor.blogspot.com/2008/09/evo-2008-addendum.html

Marvel Vs. Capcom 2 - The MvC2 community has me torn. I always say there is no community like the MvC2 community, and I mean it. You cannot get a community with better hype and excitement and rivalries and such. But at the same time, I feel like the MvC2 community is flawed. And part of the reason that I feel it is flawed IS this level of hype and rivalry and passion. Simply put, in the MvC2 community, winning means TOO much. There is so much shit talking going on and so many money matches being played that no one is willing to lose. So people will win at any cost… and one of those costs is not giving away any of your secrets. As a result, there are so few players who can even come close to being the quality of player that Justin Wong is. I do not believe Justin Wong is at a level so far above everyone that no one can reach him. I just don’t think the community has the ability to get as good as him because no one is willing to lose.

Remember how I mentioned in the Super Turbo section above that the community is really good at teaching others? The MvC2 community seems to be the opposite. There is very little education of the game going on. There’s a wealth of knowledge amongst the experts of the game but, for some reason, they never seem to want to spread the knowledge. I’ve heard this complaint from members of the community itself. It’s just tough to find information about this game. There’s no MvC2 equivalent of the T.Akiba information NKI translated or the detailed character information you can find about Guilty Gear at Dustloop. And as a result, I think the MvC2 community has trouble growing. One of the interesting things about a community like the ST community is that experts are willing to teach other players to be good enough to beat them. But in the MvC2 community, giving others the power to defeat you seems to be taboo. So no one ever wants to help others get better (unless they are a part of your crew). So many players get good, but end up reaching a plateau where they can no longer improve. It seems the only way to get to the top echelon of players is to just be in the same area as Justin Wong. There’s no coincidence that all the best players (Sanford, Smoothviper, Yipes, Demon Hyo, etc.) live around New York.

So I think until the MvC2 community learns to lower their pride (I didn’t say ignore it, I just mean tone it down a bit), I do not think anyone will ever get good enough to beat Justin Wong nor even challenge him unless you live near him and have to get better simply because you are playing him a lot. I think it would benefit the community a lot if all of the experts began helping each other more and working together to bring up the overall quality of play, rather than just trying to make sure your particular crew is better than everyone else.

Just my $.02. Not shitting on Potter specifically, but the general populace. And not even shitting, just…nagging, as I know things aren’t going to change.

EDIT: Once again I want to emphasize I am not trying to shit on Potter, because he is doing a great thing opening this thread and taking questions, but yea…stuff n crap.

[Preppy]

But note that I was asked for ‘groundbreaking’ items as opposed to the incremental lessons that slowly change how the game works/plays for you. Like watching The Branten play Tron - you don’t see any helicopters coming out when he’s playing against Sent, and that means that Sent generally controls the entire screen. (Not picking on him, I just thought that was interesting and limited him.) On the other hand, he never ever missed the connection on Mag combo into Tron, Magnetic Tempest DHC to Hail Storm to seriously punish points/assists, so people maybe can learn from him there.

I think for most people it’s a lot easier to play through how they actually play as opposed to attempt to verbalize the tricks they kind of intuitively or reactively learn. I know when Magnetroll went looking for top tier tactics he found a lot of people who more just intuitively knew what to do than could actually describe effectively their tips ‘n’ tricks. =\

[Gasp]

poppa potts how do i be as luscious as you

[Magnetro]

The things that can’t be taught are the things that people need to have before they can be top players. That’s what I think anyway. Everything else is available thanks to me and preppy, people need to know how to study and watch videos if they want to extract the good things out of them.

>Robust: Can you talk about parts of a match that exemplifies the kind of thought process that goes through a top player so people could understand how it might seem from their eyes? Any high level match between two top players. I wouldn’t expect editorial comments of course.