Ryuenjin BC is pretty troll, I remember I used to throw random ryuenjins and punish their attemps to hit me, it was pretty lol.
Lol I still do it, works like a charm. Currently figuring out ways to mix up off Ryuenjin BC j. M Hienkyaku
I love the arrogance of some of the players on this board. To say that resets are worthless or that someone is “doing it wrong” for using them with zero is pretty inaccurate IMO. Team composition plays a huge role in whether someone should burn the bar on LL or go for a reset. I’m currently using Zero/Spencer/Ammy and it is much more beneficial for spencer to come in with a few bars(for the THC mix up). I believe going for a reset is a viable strat with Zero if you have strong options off of it.
For example with my Bnb i’ll be using 2 bars for LL to kill my combo builds around 1.75% leaving me at a little bit of a loss on meter. If I choose to reset them by ending my combo with lightning(which forces a ground recovery) back dash call ammy they are forced to recover into the Coldstar assist. Allowing me to go for a high low or using clones for mix ups. There are also situations where you don’t want to kill the point and would rather snap(phoenix teams) Using a reset allows me to take as much life as possible from the point while building meter before snapping in a problem character. So there really isn’t a wrong way to do it just make sure you’re being effective with your strategy.
I’m not sure I get your idea. So you have zero out there, you have lets say, 2 bars, and you have the option to either kill off of a LL, or reset your opponent and possibly not kill them at all…at this point why is spencer coming into this equation? Your zero needs to die for him to be involved, and i don’t see why you’d rely on that as a strategy…I also hope you wouldn’t get a reset, then call in spencer so you have 2 bars.
Your zero is still alive, and could easily just build that meter back after LL’ng. If you use a bar on LL (assuming youre gaining a bar using 2), youre most likely gonna easily get that meter back, especially since you get the incoming character lightning mixup from killing the 1st character, which is ridiculously good.
your point is flawed…you want to save meter with zero so that you can spend more with spencer…which has no value, you could just kill the whole teeam using 1 meter repeatedly, instead of using gimmicky 2 bar THC tricks to kill them, what is the point?
I personally snap in phoenix as early as possible to avoid giving her meter from all the combo’ng you’ll be doing to his team. i would also never risk a reset vs the choice of snapping phoenix in guaranteed during the 1st combo, it fucks their gameplan so hard.
and i don’t think resetting is all together pointless, but like 90% of the time it is, and in the situations you are explaining, it is.
i can really only see them used on something like, characters with 1+mil, that you have started a combo via grab (if anyone doesn’t know, a grab combo nets you only 45% of the actual damage you would get IIRC) cause you probably won’t kill them off that, unless you have like 3 bars.
The strength of the strategy lies in the reset for me. against this is what i do for this particular team. I’m not saying that everyone should go for resets. Just wanted to make sure that is clear.
To me it’s important to maximize all of my characters so I tend to plan ahead. Meter management is a highly underrated part of this game. In a perfect scenario yes zero would kill the point character burn both bars with LL hit the next character with a mix up on the way in and kill that character with the subsequent bar built during that combo. In a more likely scenario for me…and hey I may just be a scrub. Vs incoming characters I usually call cold star to help limit their options, but that comes later allow me to explain my reasoning for going for the reset.
Ending the combo with lightning forces them to either roll backwards or forwards neutral is also an option. No matter which way they choose they are forced to block the assist. Even when they block cold star the player is required to block correctly whether its high or low. So unless they have a super that is invincible on start up its extremely hard if not impossible to punish ammy. So the opponent is forced to guess and block zero correctly which can be pretty hard to do with all those cold star sparks on the screen. If I’m right and the opponent is hit they die and zero has 4+ bars more than enough to kill the rest of the team. Or if zero happens to die spencer is in a good position.
It’s cute that you refer to a legit strategy as a gimmick.
For example if you were to fight chris g’s team and you lose zero for some reason.you got hit he is pretty fragile. I like my chances to win much better with spencer coming in with meter instead of blowing it all with zero and spencer comes in with minimal meter. In a perfect game scenario though you are right I could blow all my meter with zero and spencer would never have to play.
"The strength of the strategy lies in the reset for me. "
that doesn’t explain anything honestly. meter management is not underrated in my opinion, sure if you’re watching mediocre players youre gonna see alot of wasted bar. but zero gains so much meter and does SO much damage off 1 bar, that saving 1 meter so that you can use 2 later with spencer makes such little sense. As I said before, even using the 1 bar for the LL, you’re going to gain that bar back in no time…whether it’s neutral game chipping, getting another combo from the incoming mixup, or simply getting combo’d yourself.
i dunno man, what it seems like you’re saying is you are relying on your first point character dying, which i can almost guarantee is never going through a professional players mind, unless he already has taken alot of damge and is considering how much meter he can build before the character is gonna die. But you should never be expecting to die with zero unless youre already super low health…
i’m only calling it a gimmick because it’s just…very silly to me that you would rather reset an opponent, and let them live, so that you have bar on the backup (that youre gonna be using later for the same exact purpose…killing them), instead of using 1 bar to kill them. and honestly unless your opponent is still at full health, your gonna be using 1 bar instead of 2, gaining plenty.
There has been soooooo many times in high level tournament play where the player would choose to save meter instead of killing the opponent, only for that character to gain like half his health back and become a threat again, plus you just gave him free meter for all that red health you did that he gained back.
if it was anyone but zero id be with you on your meter managing, but zero, being who he is, has ridiculous meter gain vs meter spending ratio.
Shouldn’t we be using the TAC glitch to deal with phoenix? Like if their first two characters are dangerous just deal them a merciless death and then if phoenix gets bar glitch her out? Then there is Vergil/strider who seems to hard counter phoenix anyway.
there’s alot of risks involved in that process…like if she gets hit into dark before you even get the chance to TAC , not to mention if this strategy becomes dominant, more people will catch on and just not TAC until the 2nd one. Obviously this will create a mixup of ‘will he TAC the first or 2nd time’, but that is still a guessing game that zero doesn’t even need to deal with in the first place
plus i’d rather not risk fighting a phoenix with 5 bars when i could just deal with her when she has 2 or so instead.
and about the 2 other characters being a threat, the cool thing about zero is when you kill phoenix, you have a ridiculously good incoming mixup for those characters coming in, so you don’t even possibly have to deal with them.
that’s another problem with resets, you’re giving the opponent the opportunity to get out of your combo, and if it’s a scary character then you now have a problem just because you wanted some extra meter.
I agree. But I have been watching how much meter LL gains for the opponent and it might be a legit concern when vergil is in the back and you are looping the first character how much meter they have coming. if they block the incoming they can dhc vergil in safely with meter. Though this is almost speculative. Without a dire need I would still loop whoever I got.
any idea how much meter it gives them exactly? kinda curious now. Just one full loop (buster, lightningx3, buster, lightningx3, buster)
damage from one loop is about 500k.
Zeros special scaling is 20%.
So the unscaled damage is about 10mil.
I think the meter gain is something like 20% on hit which brings us back to our scaled damage 500k, so half a bar.
Which isn’t bad, but is more than most ‘enders’. I’d trade them half a bar for a dead character. Unless someone can explain an extreme case to me.
about a bar.
DP L beats wolverine divekick clean. The others (M,H) do not always.
Maybe I’m not using the correct text speak but what I mean its difficult to avoid being put in the 50/50 situation. If you even want to call it a 50/50 being pinned by that assist and having to block zero isn’t the easiest thing in the world to do. The success rate I’ve had is pretty high using this. Maybe you can do some testing and let me know how easy/difficult it is to escape unscathed. Appreciate the conversation btw. I enjoy strategy talk.
I don’t build my tactics around losing my point character. I do believe in maximizing all of my characters though. If i wanted to play a team where only zero matters i’d be playing zero/dante/xx. i just prefer my team having lots of meter maybe its a hold over from me playing strider. With meter you get options and using the reset trap set up whatever i get the kill and keep the meter in most situations.
Awesome to hear your not offended, alot of people seem to take strategy talk way too serious and will start forming a negative opinion about the discuss-er.
About your 50/50, i’m curious if the opponent can raw tag out during the reset, or if they can alpha counter their character out.
hmm i never tested raw tagging. they can alpha counter but zero is in a neutral position so unless its like sent or someone else who has an air super you can block the alpha and proceed to fucking them up. this is also really good if the person loves to mash those assists on wake up.
www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5WfEKTu_Oq8
Don’t know if someone already mentioned this, but Zero can set up the TAC glitch midscreen via j.M->H lightning buster cancel->M hienkyaku->TAC (not in the video above…or any video really. I lack recording equipment).
Pretty good intro video to zero
[media=youtube]5LnylGeCKLI[/media]
Added a couple points to the combo section and cleaned up some really embarrassing grammar mistakes.