Maybe I’m beginning to sound like a broken record, but since this is the whining thread you’ll just have to put up with it. The more I play, the more idiotic of a design choice it seems to not give Gief a 1-frame reversal. He’s a character designed to patiently inch forward, but at the same time you have to press back at random times or stick out random pokes to counter moves that are too quick to react to with only a 4-frame cr. jab (shoulder tackle, rush punches, etc.) Most of these moves are safe or even plus on block so you’re instantly put on the back foot, forced into a guessing game that is now in your opponent’s favor. You go from neutral to at a disadvantage in literally just a split second. Combined with the CCs, frame trapping and 50/50s are stupidly good against characters with no proper defensive options.
To expound on this, here’s an example: do I try to tech after a jab spinning mixer and eat his reversal, or do I sit still and hope he doesn’t throw me? If Rashid wants to play it safe he can simply follow up with his 3-frame st. short to maintain the pressure and go from there, and there’s absolutely nothing I can do about it. Even if you know what’s coming there’s no way to counter the flurry of button presses. You can only block and absorb the pressure, no way to counter it except a V-reversal for temporary respite. Once it’s safe to let go of block, the grind begins all over again. Playing Gief seems more and more like a Sisyphean ordeal. I’m starting to wonder whether I’m a masochist.
SF5 Zangief is without a doubt in my mind,the worst incarnation of the fighter i have experienced in a Versus game.He has so many aspects of his design that are weak and flawed,that its hard to stay positive and enjoy playing him.
If it wasn’t for the fact i have such a long history with Zangief,i would have dropped him a long time ago.
Anybody has any idea when the next Season 2 balance changes come out??
You’ve pretty much described the main problem with the game. The main problem IS the gameplay itself. Too many moves are safe or plus, can’t react to anything, 3 framers rule, all guessing and no skill, etc, etc, etc. Then on top of that look what they do to Gief- make spd slower, no more gh, zero wakeup, etc. In the end SF5 is just a shitty, poorly designed game that doesn’t make sense in so many ways.
But you can’t use it on reaction in the scenarios I described in my last post. The best you can do is churn butter after the initial block in hopes of blowing up a blockstring. Since it obviously doesn’t do anything against airborne opponents it can also easily be baited if you want to use it as a reversal.
Never mind that Gief really needs his meter for EX Borscht and SPD.
Ugh, I just finished watching Itazan getting spanked by Momochi. One of the greatest players in the world repeatedly falling victim to simple 50/50 okizeme games and superior pokes (admittedly by another world-class player). Tick thrown three times in a row. Oh Zangief, what has become of thou…? Itazan is squeezing blood from a stone playing Gief, but there’s only so much you can accomplish with such limited tools.
It’s disheartening that Momochi, for his standards, wasn’t even playing that great. His AAs weren’t on point and he lingered in jab SPD range far more than he should have. It seems Itazan was a bit gun-shy with his SPDs, possibly fearing the punish.
Daigo & Nemo: “Yeah, this will be the year of Zangief, believe us! snickering”
Now just wait for DevilJin to try and ruin our pity party again.
Hmmm there’s probably other videos of Itazan winning and then he could always lose to him at a major event.
I guess I’m just doing this to keep you guys occupied as the antithesis to the pity party. No fun of theres no party pooper.
Gief has the most health and stun in the game so he can stand to take some pressure. If you do get super which happens often enough you shut down the offense of a lot of characters especially since a lot of the offense in this game runs on negative frames.
Zangief has what he needs to be competitive and that’s good for Zangief who rarely ever high tier in anything any ways
I think Zangief is good, does this thread have a reason to exist now? He does what he’s supposed to, lacks a little combo range still but god damn his throws hurt and his mix-up is crazy strong post H/EX SPD. I’d like EX SPD reverted back to 240 though.
Yeah cause it’s still got guys like me who think he’s garbage!! It’s good to have an outlet to vent frustration about Gief’s current state and mechanics.
When it comes to grapplers he’s the only traditional pick, and he’s one of the strongest of the archetype in the game. I come from majority Alex in SFV and let me tell you, Gief has some fucking good options in certain MUs. He’ll always be a bit tough to play online atm because you’re running into a lot of his bad MUs in Urien, Guile but then you got a lot of Balrog as well and I think Gief bodies him.
Dhalsim and Chun Li are very bad as well, as is Nash. Luckily the latter has gone the way of the dodo. I haven’t seen a single Nash in S2 in ranked.
If Gief were good or even mid-tier the pros would be picking him up. Only Itazan manages to use him effectively and even he gets blown up regularly against other pros.
I played vanilla SFIV against a friend today. It really makes you appreciate how good he was in that game: 1200HP, invincible Lariat, st. strong with an insane hitbox and EX Green Hand. Every win felt like a win, and every loss could be pinpointed down to something I’d done wrong. In SFV I frequently lose games that I could’ve won and vice versa, it’s just a crapshoot of lucky reads and 50/50s most of the time. SFV is by far the worst SF game in the series, I even liked 3rd Strike more and I hated that game.
It’s interesting that you say this as I think third strike is at worst a top 3 all time fighting game. On the other the hand I think SF4 is easily the worst mainstream Street Fighter by a pretty wide margin. I like SFV and I think it is a huge improvement over Sleep Fighter 4. I’ve noticed that a lot of us who like third strike like SFV and don’t like SF4. Not sure why that is.
Not sure about that, two of my friends who love 3rd Strike hate SFV more than I do. I don’t enjoy 3rd Strike, but if I put aside my bias I can still recognize it as a well-crafted game, if terribly unbalanced. I don’t think SFV has any redeeming features, it’s a dumbed-down version of IV.
I do notice that people who like ST and HF generally prefer SFIV over V.
I thought that maybe I was biased against V because I suck at the game. I’ve had it since launch day and I’m still stuck in ultra gold. I don’t play every day, and I don’t ‘strategize’ my point gaining by running from people who beat me, but still. However, several pros echo the grievances I have about this game (Infiltration, Phenom, Xian) so I’d like to think at least some of my complaints hold water.
i loved ST, loved alpha(favorite), 3rd strike and i love 5. i hated 4 for a multitude of reasons. mostly because 4 had so many ways out of pressure with option selects invincible reversals and just the fact that so many things just reset to neutral. it always seems like even if you got put into a bad situation you could take your 200-250 damage and then you would be fine. it made you not really be afraid of anything outside of a few character combos. You also with option selects never had to commit to much.
5 is very old school in the fact that you make a mistake you are in deep shit. it is the closest to turbo that they have done with the fact that in turbo one knockdown could decide a match.
5 has massive issues with the way the menus and loading times are but the game feels great to me. you need to commit to everything nothing is free(except stupid shit like urien ex tackle.)
lets not forget SF4 was a hot mess for years, Vanilla was fucked up, super was good, AE was fucked, 2012 was a little better, and ultra finally balanced it. but it didnt change the fact that the game was completely different than every other sf ever.
also i really hated ultras the fact that i could beat the shit out of someone for most of the match and them fucking up gave them the tool to beat me pissed me off. Yes that is the same with Balrog & Urien Vtrigger but that is two characters everyone else is not that bad.
Funny, what you hate about IV is exactly what I love about it. I really liked that momentum could shift between players precisely because so many things reset to neutral. I played a Rashid today who constantly used Eagle Spike, the safe on block one. I knew it was coming, but I couldn’t do anything about it. St. jab, jump back fierce, V-skill and try to punish, nothing worked. Defence is so underpowered in this game, something similar would’ve never happened in IV. Another thing I hate about V, and this is strictly a personal, subjective observation, is the cast. I don’t like Karin, Mika, Birdie, Rashid, Laura, Ibuki and Necalli from a character design point of view. I also don’t like that there’s no Blanka, Honda and Sagat. Again, this is a personal thing and I can’t really slight the game for it.
My favorite is HF, never really cared much for the Alpha series. I like ST a lot, but there’s some serious balance issues like Claw’s hyoubal crap and pretty much everything about Boxer. Then there’s O.Sagat… What I liked about HF is that every character had great tools to be competitive, with a few exceptions. (Claw, Dictator, Boxer).
Really because I’ve felt like I’m being punished for guessing correctly in five because the opponent gets pushed back. Same with blocking if they have a plus move well good luck with that.
Rashid is what I wish Fuerte was. A mobile character that you can actually control in neutral. I’ve seen too many videos of top players being able to do not much at all to control Pepedays neutral. I guess that’s why Poongko and Pepeday got grand finals at Canada Cup. Crazy neutral vs crazy neutral.
I do also agree that I like how punishing the situations can be in V while still having a game of mostly soft/techable knockdowns. Reminds me a lot of 3S where momentum can lead into heavy damage without the set play being so forced and safe jump/vortex oriented. White chip is a really interesting way of making throws and single pokes become a lot scarier if the opponent is too passive.
Well yes you’re right about it being personal but it’s still a valid observation because the ones you mentioned would have completed the original 12 from SF2. It does seem kind of strange they have been left out. Sagat’s a pretty sure bet for Season 3 but the other two…no guarantees there at all!! Not to mention the exclusion of Dee jay,Fei Long and T.Hawk.
Pros and cons really. Pro to veterans of the series to see a familiar face but kind of Con because we’ve been playing these people since 2008 in SF4!! I consider SF4 Zangief to be the strongest in the series,so this new version of the Red Cyclone is really disappointing considering the tools they had established.