the hardest problem with honder is his streight jump hands there descent controlable so he can move forward realy safe and backward althou wath makes hitting hard like hell and those hands hafe high priority
Yea I’ve been having problems with straight up jump, high priority moves too. Includes Honda, Ryu’s J. MK and one of Ken’s K (don’t know which). Stuffs out a lot of your options. After getting beaten I was thinking if you can stuff them out with forward J. HK right after they jump but never got to try it out.
Chun’s neutral j.HK is a bitch… Not sure what the best answer for that one is. Dash under and lariat trade? Maybe the best answer is just to time an ex-hand when they’re landing.
I have been trying to figure this one out aswell. Any help would be appreciated. None of his moves go that high to do anything about it. I can just block it but it leaves me on defense and then there is nothing stopping them from repeating it over and over.
What can be done about this high jumping ho?
Honda’s straight up fierce is a tough one. Here is some rambling on it:
I think punch lariat can trade or sometimes beat it, but again it’s rare to get the timing/spacing right on it consistently.
From straight up fierce you usually see normals or ochio throw for a follow-up, which makes lariat or SPD a good response after blocking the aerial.
I imagine if Honda started using butt-splash it could become more problematic, but if you anticipate and block then honda is going to be hurting anyway.
Edit: and yeah Chun’s Straight up HK is an arse to deal with. >:[
I’m sure EX hand is a viable, albeit strict timing/spacing wise, option.
Don’t focus Honda’s neutral fierce. Most of the time when it hits or is blocked, Honda will do follow up slaps, which is not only safe but, in the case of fierce hands, actually considerably advantaged on block. It also means that you take damage on the end of your focus or post-focus backdash.
Ex hand won’t work unless the Honda times his neutral fierce poorly or doesn’t know to pilot it backward.
Noted…I’ve edited my post to not include bad things.
Is there anything else you can add about honda’s straight up fierce, or indeed Chun’s straight up RH?
Far standing roundhouse and crouching fierce usually beat or trade with it.
i feel that a big part of giefs game is learning how to force your opponent into the corner. most of the time i’m starting off matches by mostly walking and blocking, slowly forcing them to back up. if you have the opponent cornered, it just seems to limit your opponents options to the point where you have a larger advantage. for example bison can’t devils reverse/headstomp and blanka can’t horizontal ball without being punished by various moves.
in general, patience is key with gief
Lol this is pretty much standard Gief strategy.
I’m not sure if this works all the time but is forward cr. HK a viable counter to Honda’s neutral j. HP? You have to be properly spaced such that your hitbox is away from the attack and the tip of your foot tags him just before he lands. Any counters to Ryu and Ken’s neutral j. MK? The attack would stuff out forward cr. HK all the time.
What I have so far is to time far S. HK to hit slightly after the apex of their jump, and if you’re close enough, a cr. MP timed early should do the trick.
i just got wrecked by a dhalsim player named N DRU on xbox live. I won the first match and he won the next 12. I took 2 rounds during that time. I was pretty impatient during the middle 5-6 games but I wouldn’t say I would have had a chance if I had been patient. I think during one game I was hit by s. hp 3 times before I left the ground. it was like a combo. knee beats anything you have to jump in with and any time I did green hand to close the distance I was thrown out. I would get into a good jump range and get pushed back immediately by limbs, feet and yoga fire.
I’m more lost than when I started.
I’ve gone over the Sim matchup in pretty extensive detail a couple times on this thread and the old matchup thread, so look that stuff up. Long story short, you do in fact have things that beat the knee, including far jumping early medium kick, early fierce, and jab.
I can sympathise 100%, although i’ve been having much more success mixing in Kick lariat.
It was covered earlier somewhere when I asked about the same matchup, but block a fireball and if he’s in poke range go for kick lariat straight away.
Also try empty jumping a fireball and going for kick lariat on landing.
It beats sim’s low ground pokes on startup and gets you a knock-down, and some Sim players don’t realise it.
Don’t try and jump out of his low punch pokes (s.fierce I assume) if he’s going to spam it on you then kick lariat is your friend. Most of the time it beats Sim’s S.Fierce (on startup) or makes his poke whiff completely. If you take a hit or two don’t worry because you’re Zangief.
If you have decent spacing on Sim’s poke range try focus absorbing a fireball or two. It can be used to bait a reckless poke to make you eat the grey or to bait a teleport cross-up. either way I find it’s a handy tactic to use, even if only once or twice, because people really seem to like making you eat grey damage. but it makes them be a bit more aggressive in trying to hit you, which you are obviously expecting. If they go for a teleport crossup then you can start blocking fireballs instead and wait for them to teleport themselves right behind you.
I’ve even had very limited success with spamming kick lariat if Sim’s poke whiffs through kick lariat, just keep on spamming till you get hit (even though sometimes they’ll just spam that poke to push you out and continuing with kick lariat is not a bad idea) or get the knock-down although this only really works on idiots who counter-pick.
Smarter Sim players will make it much harder for you than just using those few pokes, but in terms of his pokes think of Dhalsim as a 7 year old and Zangief as a blender (a lariat blender). When you’re going to do/are doing lariat it’s a bad idea for Sim to try and poke you because if he chooses the wrong poke (or to poke at all in the first place) it’s quite possible he’s going to lose a finger.
thanks for the tips, i read through the matchups and I will retry those various methods. The jump in fierce did work at times and the medium kick too. I was really in such a hurry to start unloading maybe I didn’t really pick my spots properly. I have to admit I was seeing red after loss #5 or 6 and I just wanted to break him, except it was me who got broke off.
N DRU is really good Sim player. I played him he beat me 13 - 3 with his SIM. He does seem unbeatable at times. I was only able to beat him once I put on extreme ammount of pressure and played almost no defense. I could stop his ground game…what gets me is his hover teleport behind > combo. I tried to beat it with lairat but if he chose to do air headbutt it would go thru my lairat. I can get lucky sometimes and block airheadbutt and SPD him once he touches ground.
But short of guessing right on a few of his mix ups ftw. Not much I could really do about his running away once I get him low.
He gets much respect from me. He is a GREAT dhalsim.
Anyone ever play a bit vs Gouken?
Ive fought some with nice styles and tactics. usually I do ok and win outright or barely lose.
Last night I fought someone that did nothing but spam fireballs.
If you lariat, then do the srk K move. if I did a punch lariat, id eat his dive in combo which consisted of 4 or 5 low jabs. No special moves. followed by a jump back/hurricane kick, fireball spam repeat.
if I did kick lariat, it would be close but usually just jab block me away , rinse repeat.
Was a bit annoying. kept mixing up them fireballs with pretty good timing and accuracy. But my controllers been acting up,ex hands coming out as ex spds some how… So i dunno if it woulda went that sour had my shit worked right when i was point blank.
Thanks man this is gonna make playing with gief a hell of a lot easier.
umm what’s the point of canceling green hand into super? i can’t get the super to connect on block or hit… if it worked on hit it would totally own…
It only works if they are focus attacking. That way, you immediately grab right after the light greenhand (preferably) hits.