U1 is not hard to give up on sagat. Most of the time you try it, he will be backdashing or you will eat tu. U1 makes little difference to his game. U2 on he other hand, forces him to change/limit his game. No brainer if you ask me
The Gat match is a motherfucker, but you must corner Sagat otherwise he’ll zone you out with tiger knees (well timed so that the tip of his knee hits you) and any jump-ins will be effectively dealt with by Tiger Uppercut, it is a horrible match, no one denies it. Maybe even worse than Dhalsim since Sagat is a much heavier hitter. The only GOOD Sagat I faced online just murdered me, it’s a match-up I have to study. But Sagat is so rare nowadays…
I feel like you have to bulldog everything he does that could be used as a poke, such as baiting and blocking his balls/knees, after that you can punish accordingly. You could always try focusing one ts, jumping over another, etc. Best to not jump over all of them, or better yet just block/focus since it results less in you getting juggled into ultra.
Some links: [media=youtube]l7LuT6MwGx8&feature=related[/media]
[media=youtube]904bETc9z9o[/media]
I mostly agree with this, even though I rarely actually LAND Ultra 2 against a Sagat. Just having it seems help a lot.
Sagat is one of those chracters that I find I rarely attempt any SPDs on. It’s usually just pokes/combos. Not sure why that is.
Do you play anybody offline? Did you play another other games other than SF4? SF4 is slow as balls.
I’m not gdlk, and neither is anybody else I play with, but people whiff punish all the time.
Ok I looked up frame data for bison s.hk - 9+3+16 = 28 frames, but I don’t know what his hitbox is like near the end, but gief s.mp starts up in 4, so you probably have more than 16 frames to react, so more time than lp sonic boom. But like I said, I’m not good at frame data, so if someone could confirm, that’d be cool.
But it’s fine also if you guys don’t believe me. You don’t have to step up your footsie game if you don’t want to.
100 ms is like 6 frames or something? I’m just saying you can react to something at least twice as slow as that. And I got like 254 avg on that test and that’s waking up in the morning checking SRK without my adrenaline pumping - is that normal?
talking about reaction, anyone can punish blocked ryu cr hk consistently?
If they are too close, cr lk- ex hand st lk-ex hand is much easier
but if they are far,you have to use ex hand like instantly after the block
It’s much easier if you predict it, but if they thow it out randomly, it 's very hard for me to punish that shit.
Settle down. It’s nothing personal. It’s just that the numbers don’t add up. Many of your questions are irrelevant. But yes, I do play offline…and yes, I have played other games. But I don’t need to play the game at all to realize when something is physiologically impossible. Also, believing you has absolutely nothing to do with wanting to step up my footsie game or not.
Warning, the following paragraph is dry and boring to non-number-crunchers:
The 100 ms thing wasn’t a number I just pulled out of thin air. Bison’s st.hk has 6 startup frames, 3 active frames, and 16 recovery frames (although total recovery frames aren’t really important in this instance). Total of 24 (1 is subtracted because the 6th frame is technically active and overlaps with the 3 startup frames, it’s kinda weird but the problem is actually with how frame data is named). It appears to me that the last frame that’s actually punishable by Zangief’s st.mp in footsie range is frame number 13 (and that’s being generous because his leg is already halfway back by then). Any later frame and you would have to be so close that you would have hit him anyway. The first frame of Bison’s st.hk is simply Bison smiling, and I’m assuming you’re not reacting to that. Accounting for st.mp’s startup, and the game’s built in input delay, then yes, you would have to react in about 6 frames. Not accounting for the games input delay (because sources on this seem to be conflicting) you’d still have to react in 9-10 frames. And 254 ms is way too slow to do this, but not a bad score compared to other people. This is also assuming a 0-latency TV, which doesn’t really exist. Sorry to be so technical, I know it rubs some people the wrong way. But facts are facts.
tl.dr: jasonC is either lying, mistaken, or has the best reaction times ever demonstrated by a human. If I had to bet, I’d say you’re mistaken. Otherwise, prove you can do this. But in any scenario I don’t think it’s good to tell other people to step their game up or to question our footsie ability.
Hey lookie here. Here is Vance “the dance” Vangief getting pwned by LamerBoi Guile OFFLINE.
[media=youtube]lXy75D89Si8&feature=player_embedded[/media]
Notice how many “on reaction” ex gh actually go through booms… NONE.
Only random prediction ones did.
Not knocking a fellow comrade, but something is not adding up.
P>S. this matchup is effing ridiculous.
guile 5 gief 5
I question how much of the ‘reaction’ is really anticipation, not even buffer. Same goes with whiff-punishing, some moves are easy to whiff-punish, others are more anticipation IMO than raw “I see that move so I press this” shrug
As for Bison pressure, only thing I got splash, c.lk w/ buffereed gh to follow is probable teleport…nothing…thats worth answering your question with…sorry.
Rose we covered a few pages ago.
We really need to re-organize this forum…
- :bluu:
1-9 when he’s on his feet and at mid or long range 5-5 when your in footies range and 9-1 once you knock him down. Lamer’s aa and spacing game is sick so he’s really hard to knock down from the few times I’ve played him.
I make Guile my bitch once I get in on 'tat ass, but boy do he make you work for it! xD
I beat some scrubby Sagat player yesterday, started cussing me out when I killed him with a surprise Hand. lol
I wonder who’s the toughest match-up for Gief, Sagat/Dhalsim/Guile? hmmmm
Hardest matchup is Sagat isn’t it?
Being nerfed to hell didn’t help either.
If i’d have to rate Giefs bad matchups in order of downright retarded to winnable only with EXCEPTIONAL mutha effing footsies it would be:
- Seth, 2. Sagat, 3. Akuma 4. Guile, 5. Chun, 6. Blanka , 7. Ryu, 8. Fei, 9. Rose, 10. Honda
{{{edit: Notable top 10 omission Dhalsim}}}
The problem is that most of these are the tournament mainstays, top tier if you will.
Sagat being “nerfed” in Super helped Gief? No it phucking didn’t. Just that less godly players are using Gat these days. Makes the matchup charts look better than it really is.
And while I totally understand why Aqua would come on here and say its even because if Gief gets a KD, he gets big damage… The problem with Super Guile is DAMAGE. We give less and take more of it and Guile is the reverse. You eat 2 backfist and a boom and like a third of your life is gone. The days of that one good guess and ending a round on a Guile KD with a ultra are like over too. Risk/Reward ratio is still there for Gief obviously, but that ratio is severely depleted vs Guile now-days.
So, what’s the general lay out on fighting a Claw player? I got my ass raped by one on Jay’s stream, and I had no idea how to face him.
I meant Gief being nerfed to hell didn’t help with his bad matchups.
FUCK. I CAN’T BEAT BALROG. No matter what I try, I always, ALWAYS LOSE. This is SO FUCKING RIDICULOUS.
Rog is hell for Gief. I terrorize Zangief’s when I play him.
Try to learn to SPD his rush punches.
He’s free on wakeup so get a UKD and let the mixups begin.
Don’t running bear.
Watch for when he has EX, because he can beat your lariats (which you should not be doing much anyway)
Lariat his TAP.
If he goes for overhead Suplex him.
What troubles are you having with Balrog? I’ll see if I can help any. I don’t have trouble anymore with him. I used to though so I think I know where you are comming from.
I personally don’t like to try and spd rush punches as Porter had mentioned. I find that revenge throw works best for me. You also don’t have to guess on the timing because as soon as they are in range the move activates. Don’t miss though. I would suggest using the EX version as it can take the hit as well.
You can also Punch Lariat any rush punches that don’t go low. If they are throwing sweep rushes then use Kick Lariat. I would also not cross him up. There is really no need. Chances are you are going to eat a head but and get Ultra 1 in your face.
Throughout the whole matchup I like to stay just out of cr.roundhouse (low strong kick) range. This puts the pressure on him and you are quite safe at this range.
If I had one piece of advice above all others I would say you can’t waste chances to punish. Every blocked headbutt should be an SPD.
I really feel this depends on the type of Rog you play the level of difficulty. This match comes down to is Rog going to attack Gief and risk being punished, or is he going to maintain mid-range space the entire round? Rush down rogs have a tough time with Gief because for alot of them it’s difficult to switch up to defensive rog without just being lame. A good Gief can crack open the lameness with 1 or 2 good reads.
I don’t have issues with “rush punch” rogs in fact I hope they are. Lots of neutral jumping puts that shit in its place. (But do be on the look out for Rogs that know the charge buffering technique. It will make it seem he only charged his rush for 1 sec.)
s.mp stuffs any non -ex rush so thats a good approach poke, but just not in his cr. hk range… Rog is really best to save his meter to get out of KD situations because really his best escape other than quick stand jump back HP is an ex rush unless Gief times his landing perfectly to spd him out of it. If he’s HB happy on wake up, time it so that you safe jump it then you punish with spd of choice INCLUDING U1!!!
I also use s.lp O-S gh. I think this is the only match i use that. Up to you but lp o-s is important in the one.
***Now i wish i had strats for lame rogs who are legitimately good at zoning not just sitting on down back. This is where i pull my hair out as well. Only thing that nets me damage is an empty jump spd at the range you make his cr. HP whiff. But he’ll catch on pretty fast and use s.HP instead but then you can j.mk on him. Total RPS here. Punish ALL blocked HB with spds, break the habit of PPP punishes if you do.
On AA lariat. Some rogs have really really good timing to stuff the lariat and some don’t. Comes down to your ability to time it late. Me I’m average, so I will block it he shows he can stuff my timing, but now at least now he’s close range. If he’s smart he’ll try to bait spds, be ready for it.
I have a link to a match here. Doesn’t show Gief styling on Rog, it went 1-1, but just to show how you can make a rog intent to maintain mid-range space play his ass off.
[media=youtube]-aPfAzARVno#t=4m00s[/media]
I’m in and out when I play as Rog against Gief. As long as I can keep him at just outside s. hp range I’m safe. Gief tries to EX Hand in? Eat a combo. Trying to Lariat in? Eat a headbutt > Ultra.
I never whiff cr. HP on Gief because I use it sparingly. Unless I’m 110% sure it’ll hit because I don’t want a suplex in my face.
AA Lariat isn’t a good idea unless you’re sure he’s empty jumping (Which why would he do hahaha) because j. HP and j. HK will beat lariat clean if timed right.