Call his dashes and back dash or forward dash out of his throw on wake up, then counter with SPD.
Block the low slide, SPD.
Jump when you can so you have the ability to bait Guacamole. If you never jump…he will know he cant guacamole or ultra you easily.
Save your EX Bars for Ghand on wake up as a desparate escape from Splash.
cr.HK on wake is great.
Just a few tips. I use more but too lazy to type. You can just see UD’s master list.
There are numerous things you need to know with this matchup but basicly. It depends on the player and your ability to adapt to the elf player’s tricks. The GvElf Matchup is BIG mindgames on the Elf part and his mobility will make it tough if he is smarter than you. Just call his game make him dizzy and end it.
Viper kept going in and out of top-tier for a while so I never know where she stands shrug
I’m personally torn on Gief/Akuma. There is a HUGE health difference for sure, but Akuma’s ability to play the ‘you will never catch me’ game makes. If Akuma plays perfecly or near perfectly … its his fight to lose. But if he slips up twice thats GGPO.
CHAR OCT 5
Abel 7-3
Akuma 4-6
Blanka 4-6
Boxer 6-4
Chun 6-4
Claw 5-5
Dan dunno
Dhalsim 6-4
Dictator 5-5
Fei dunno
Fuerte 5-5
Gen dunno
Gouken 6-4
Guile 5-5
Honda 5-5
Ken 6-4
Rose dunno
Rufus 6-4
Ryu 4-6
Sagat 3-7
Sakura dunno
Seth 3-7
Viper 5-5
Zangief 5-5
I left the tournament scene before console (with a few exceptions here and there) and only just came back to the tournament scene a month ago. Also I still mostly play on arcade and the people I play with still mostly use arcade characters, so I still don’t have much experience against some of the console-only cast.
after spd jab green hand follow up, you can bait a sim and dic tele with j.fp, i knew about the dic one but just found out about sims.
Vs blanka you can hit a blocked ball with kara mp hand, also a trick to hit it with ex is to wait till he’s about to hit the ground and makes hit hitbox fatter for some reason.
also after spd mp hand into fk beats back dash and jump.
Random funny tricks(tick)- crumple into back dash jump d+mk reset, then c.mk into 720(lariat)
also you can fadc after a green hand hits a fb, which means if you dod it right at thier face you can xx into 720 super…lol, cool reason to store one and land a hellmary vs sagat or sim!
YES the s.HK has quicker start-up, shorter recovery than the s.FP. It also is safer and closes more distance. That’s great.
BUT in the event you time your ex.gh too early after performing 3 or 4 jabs/shorts during the BnB, gief is at a distance where a s.HK will actually connect with a standing opponent. This may not always be what you want. Personally, there are times where I want a gap-closing normal to actually whiff in order to set myself up for grabs. s.FP will give you that whiff at this particular distance.
ALSO I should’ve explained what I mean by s.FP being a quicker option that your other gap-closing normals. It is a subtle point. Whiffing your c.mk is possible at this distance (remember, s.HK will connect) and the frame data shows us that it is a “faster” move. It is, in fact, 5 frames faster:
s.FP 12 start-up/ 3 active / 18 recovery = 33 frames till gief’s back in neutral state
c.MK 7 start-up/ 4 active/ 15 recovery = 28 frames till gief’s back to neutral
BUT 5 frames is 1/12 of a second. The time it takes for your fingers to move from punch buttons to kick buttons is conceivably longer than .08 seconds and so s.FP remains a quicker option (this goes for s.HK as well). So, i stick by my point that s.FP is the quickest option you have after screwing up your BnB. :china:
#1 -If you screw up your EX green hand in a combo and it’s blocked, 3 things will happen
a)you have meter and FADC back
b)you get thrown
c)you get comboed.
I don’t know why this hypothetical for “messing up GH” combos exist. Just hit the combo.
#2 We may talk about S.HP, S.HK, C.MK or whatever as a means of moving forward to get in grab range… Here’s a Protip:
They
All
Suck.
Seriously. They’re slow as shit. Good opponents are conditioned to jump away on sight of them, or worse Punish them by DP’ing you, or hitting you in your recovery.
The reason why S.HK is actually ok overall is if the opponent jumps away, S.HK can tag them out of the air. The other two moves don’t have that.
#3 Elite forward moving trick that’s better than S.HK, S.HP, or C.MK…
WALK FORWARD… JAB SPD!
Try it!
Buffer it during S.LP or S.MP poke strings. and then snag them. It’s good, fast, and doesn’t have a super obvious
**“HEY I’M GOING TO TRY TO GRAB YOU AFTER THIS MOVE” ** sign
#4 If one more person mentions using C.MK as a “reset” into ultra, I’m going to stab someone.
#5 Yes you can Super cancel when a green hand hits a fireball. This is so ridiculously hard to setup, and at the range where you could do it, you could have hit them with EX hand. What is cute is hitting a focus attack with Green Hand and canceling into 720.
I think Guile is 6-4 Gief if only because Guile is completely screwed once gief gets in once. He has nothing to get Gief off him. It’s a long, long fight to get there though.
Viper is up in the air, but I think what’s “making” it 5-5 is that all the Viper players now are extremely high skilled, much more so than Gief players in the US. I think Gief still has the advantage.
I also think Gief beats dictator, but it’s more 5.5-4.5
As for the Console characters… probably 6-4 over Cammy/Fei. 7-3 over Sakura. The only times I’ve seen Gief lose that fight is if they didn’t know what they were doing (i.e. trying to grab Sak’s safe hurricanes). Don’t really know about Rose/Gouken. 8-2 over Dan.
Gouken = Guile match-up IMO. Sure there are differences, but the concept is identical, just a little more mind-f#ckery is needed. Lariat beats Anything gouken does on the ground COLD. I struggle with dive kicks though.
I think your 100% on the viper match-up…I blame lariat - CVs have to try harder and require more work to be ‘winnable with’. Gief can PPP out the box.
Unreleated note…so I fought an Abel last nyte. He did his f->mk and dashed fwd. I do Ultra…you see the animation play…and then I get thrown by his windmill or whatever throw. I know it beats the Ultra framewsie…but damn…that just like…ruined my evening. lol
hahaha. awesome. c.mk really is the worst broadcasted move ever.
And I completely agree with just walking up and SPD instead of trying to whiff a move to SPD. I like to throw in a couple of s.lk or s.lp fake outs right out side of their range, walk in and out and try to catch them sleeping with an SPD. It works well on charge characters like Guile who likes to sit there and wait.
I’ve been fighting myself trying to use meaties (well learn them) and not using them. At this point with Gief I throw out c.lk early…not even meaty time, and react as necessary *agaisnt DP folks, everyone else is eating crossups or other shennanigans. I’ve actually finally stopped using c.mk all together, its taken a while to ween myself off it, I think I’ve used it like twice in the past 30 days as a “surprise, didn’t think I’d do that did you?” type move, but I’ve countered by trying for more knockdowns with d/f rh…so I still lose to the same sh!t lol…I’ll learn one of these days.
lol wat, 6-4 vs. Rog in Giefs favour? thought atleast 5-5… it feels like u have a GOOD chance if you got good footsies. i know he has his jabs (standing) some stuff that beats lariat and also cr.mk beats alot of giefs normals… and not beeing to far away or to close, maybe like 2-3 characters away is a good place for Rog vs. Gief…gotta check that our more closely.
Hey mayne we need to play so more matches add me on xbl. I kinda agree with this, I believe this match up is ELF’s to lose honestly he has every single tool to keep Gief out, and if an ELF player really wanted to he could time gief out every round. In this match up if its two equally skilled players going against each other, the fuerte player should win more than his share jus my thoughts.
I dunno, I play both, I don’t think its EF’s to lose. It looks like it at first glance, but Gief essentially plays like a boxer … slowly but surely ‘cutting off’ the area in which you run aroudn in, until your within his range. EF can NOT just ‘run’ at Gief…it works up to a certain point before you hit Gief’s that know to backdash/absorb/block the mindgames…then its hit and run, but EF can’t ‘get over’ Gief…period. Anything EF does that will projet him ‘over’ gief, will cost him 25%. thats the deciding factor…Gief can trap EF. EF with no mobility is like watching a Rose player squirm in preparation of “The Rape”.
And by no means am I saying ‘its easy’ for Gief, but it can be done consistently enough for the fight to IMO be in Gief’s favor. If the dmg scale wasn’t so different, this would be a slightly different discussion, but I can take a pounding trying to ‘massage’ EF into a corner, and at that point, he’s stuck. He’s real safe to poke against, his only ‘reversal’ will get him out the corner…and hit by an EXGH…which is a knockdown. And ‘most’ of EF’s tactics are highly punishable if it isn’t a clean hit…so as I think UD or Renegade stated early in this thread its like a 1-3 ratio…and thats honestly in Gief’s favor.
The ones I’m the fenciest about are Akuma (maybe 5-5 instead of 4-6?) and Fuerte (maybe 4-6 instead of 5-5?). Just imo, in any case.
Good Goukens aren’t worried about lariat; he has real good tools against that (for example, delayed cr. fierce xx ex rush into damage/shenanigans). They’re more worried about ex hand. The match is in Gouken’s favor at the start before Gief gets meter, because it’s pretty hard for Gief to get around Gouken’s lariats and normals. Once Gief gets meter, though, Gouken has to be a little more careful about where he throws fireballs for fear of on-reaction hand. It can become a footsie game, and while Gouken has very good footsie normals, his footsies don’t lead to much damage, and Gief’s footsies are also really good but lead to knockdowns and more damage. A knockdown here just results in a guessing game that’s weighted in your favor.
I’ve played Valle’s Gouken for hours on end and I’ve come out probably around 6-4. He says it’s Gouken’s worst matchup, but if that’s true it says a lot about Gouken’s tournament viability because the matchup really isn’t that lopsided.
Thats true I have just never played a gief that could fully trap me. I would like to play your gief the only other good one I’ve played is clydbyrd when do you usually get on live??
He’s a little better than me with Gief shrugs when I get on its usually between 6-8pm est. Just hit me up. I’d like to play against EF to see what my EF can do to improve short of just working on RSF. He’s soooooo fun hehe.
My thing about the lariat verse Gouken is essentially he can’t do things he usually can do for free. It REALLY cuts down his ground game options. And similar to Guile…its that knockdown that puts a hurt on’em…his parry is ridiculous, but baitable. Def need meter though. I’ve seen some effective antiGH tactics using his mp fireball.
Hi Gief users this won’t take a minute.
I have a few survey questions for Sakura Forums Research.
WE are keen to know the opinions of the vs Sakura match up across the character forums.
[list=1]
[]What’s the best approach to beating a average/good Sakura player?
[]How do you beat a defensive Sakura and how do you beat an offensive one?
[/list]
To beat sukura I just wait for them to jump in attack. I counter that with crouch PPP lariat. Then once down I play cross up mind games switching between short jump fake cross and regular cross. Also switching between knees and splash. Also switching between kkk lariat and ex rbg. I do this till they run out of life or they get away. If they don’t jump in lariat fire balls to build meter and then ex green hand for the knock down.
Gief can counter the nuetral jump HK with a crouch PPP lariat and follow that up with ex green hand so don’t bother.
- CVs have to try harder and require more work to be ‘winnable with’. Gief can PPP out the box.