Thanks for posting up my Sagat vs Gief matchup strategies. Frankly, it will clean up a lot of the clutter fuck on the Zangief forums, since it’s so incredibly important and frustrating for a gief to learn. Good job.
Yeah, the Sagat section really gave me some insight on it. Stupid 3-7, if not 2-8 matchups.
I say we go for this thread to be stickied.
It’s got so much information in the first post.
Much easier, neater, and organized compared to the currently stickied version.
Alternatively, just post all that info in the first post from the other thread, if that guy says he’ll consistently update it like this guy.
Very nice post man, top notch. Just one thing though…
Zangiefs strategy is “being zangief!” He has a move for every situation, his SPD has priority of 80% of moves, banishing flat travels you across the screen in no time, lariat also gives you protection from 80% of moves, his s.HK reaches half way across the screen, not to mention his c.Long HK does the same. He has the most life in the game at 1200, and also is hardest to get stunned.
Case in point, Zangief is the new CVS2 Sagat/Blanka.
Since I couldn’t find any Viper strats yet I thought I might share some things I found after playing Victoly’s C. Viper at Denjin.
The hardest part for me was getting in while under a constant barrage of seismic hammer fakes and cancels. What I found very useful was jumping towards her from a long range once you see her hand glow red. If she commits to the hammer, it won’t hit u since ur in the air. If she cancels it and does another one, it should give u enough time to land and block most of the time. Both of these situations are in your favor because ur gradually pushing her into the corner which is where you want her. Just don’t try to jump after blocking one of those hammers cause the blockstun on that thing is enough for her to catch u with another if u do. Other than that, you’re main goal is to slowly work her into the corner. From there, just keep up the pressure and try to find an opening to knock her down.
Here are a few things that I found that worked very well for me during a few matches:
-Lariat beats her ex seismic hammer if she does it on wakeup if ur up close
-Lariat beats/trades her ex burning kick if she does it on wakeup if ur up close
-Lariat beats/trades her HK xx burning kick crossup shenanigans
-EX glove is great at the sweetspot distance if she does a seismic hammer
-Don’t get too close to her in the corner yet unless you score a knockdown, otherwise viper will just superjump out over ur head. I found that keeping ur range at the ex glove sweet spot was good. If they try to jump out, u can meet them in the air with a headbutt. If they flinch or make a mistake, ex greenhand.
-Once knocked down, try doing lariats to try and beat most of her wakeups and then when they get scared of doing wakeups, you can:
-SPD/Atomic suplex if they stay grounded
-jab/short->bnb if they try to jump
That’s about all I got for now. Let me know what you guys think or if these things worked or didn’t work for you. Hope it helps for anyone having trouble with good vipers.
Until next time… -spins away arms extended-
You can KKK lariat her seismic hammers. That’s another option.
I think we need more information on Dhalsim. His standing HK has ridiculous priority. He just baits a jump and does HK all day long. I couldn’t even beat it out with an early j.mk. I ended up just empty jumping and try to land outside of the HK’s range.
Can you guys give me some pointers on my zangief ?
Here’s a vid vs. Ryu :
[media=youtube]4h9qDCNC6JA[/media]
This is a great thread. I added some of the info the the zangief section of the shoryuken wiki.
http://shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Zangief_(SFIV)
The one thing I noticed in that video is that you like to do LK knees on cross up.
I would suggest doing the HP Splash more than the LK knees because it does more damage and stun.
You need to add st. mk to your footsie war. It beats cr. mk from a shoto, which makes it good just for that. Try doing st. lk buffered into ex greenhand (a bit risky, since it’s obviously hard to hit confirm, but if you have enough meter to fadc out, then try it for the obvious knock down). Jumping lk is fine, I’m assuming you use it for ticks like I do, that or you’re a bit afraid of a shoryuken fadc into ultra. That on topic though, you use very few tick throws. Try mixing it up by adding cr.lp -> SPD or something. Don’t try to whiff a roundhouse when it’s flaming obvious you want an ultra. You jump a bit too much, but against a Ryu with no ultra or fadc, I suppose that’s fine. For the most party, pretty by the book, meaning you got a solid enough Gief.
Can we have some more specific strats against Chun Li and Dhalsim?
It’s hard to get in on Sim, but it’s doable. There’s no need to be hasty about it, and actually being hasty can get you basted. Jumping at bad times and places will get you antiaired and walking forward at bad times or places will get you standing fierced. Your goal is to push Sim into the corner.
On the ground, psychic lariats can knock Sim out of his far limbs, sometimes trading (which is fine for you because you win on damage and get a knockdown). Far crouching jab and standing strong beat far standing fierce. If you block a far standing fierce, you can do reversal green hand to move forward while Sim is recovering, and then you’ll get hit by something because Sim recovers sooner than you do, but as long as you don’t get hit by super that’s worth it because it gets you and Sim closer to the corner.
In the air is where you can really move forward though. It’s basically a big wheel of options where both characters have answers to the other one’s options, it’s just a question of which one do you expect your opponent to do. If you jump from 2/3 screen with early jumping forward kick, that beats all of Sim’s antiair options except his neutral jumping strong. If you jump from 2/3 screen with early jumping fierce or jab, that beats neutral jumping strong and standing roundhouse but loses to slides and low punches. If you jump from there with nothing (ie empty jump), that’ll lose to all regular antiairs but beat slides and low punches.
If you jump from a range where if you attack, it’ll just barely hit Sim or Sim will just barely get back+roundhouse/strong on you, you have a much stronger guessing game. From there, jumping jab can beat back+roundhouse and jump strong but loses to slides and low punches. Jumping early fierce, same thing. Jumping early medium kick usually loses to back+roundhouse and jump strong but stuffs slides and low punches. Now, if you jump from that range with an empty jump, all of Sim’s grounded antiairs will whiff because you’re just out of range, you’ll block his slides, and you’ll block his low punches, each of which scenario results in you getting a free spinning pile driver (this still loses to Sim’s jumping strong).
Getting spd is great for damage, but also great because it moves Sim towards the corner and you get another free wakeup situation. Regardless of how you get in, once you get in, you eat him alive. Lariat beats all of his regular options except backdash and teleport, and if you have him cornered, it also beats that. It’s like a very limited guessing game that’s wildly in your favor: lariat, which beats everything but block and punish, and spd, which beats block and punish but not teleport or backdash.
About using standing medium kick in footsies, it really isn’t that great. Oh, it seems great at first, but then wait until you hit a guy with it and he gets a free attack on you for it because it’s extremely unsafe on both block and hit (-10 on block, -7 on hit). The problem is its gigantic recovery, which can be punished even on whiff. If you whiff standing forward, some opponents can literally see it out, react to it being out there, and then do uppercut/super/flash kick/ultra etc on reaction to it (this has happened to me more than a few times). It would be a great move if it had half the recovery frames it has, but it doesn’t, so it sucks. Standing short, crouching short, standing strong, crouching jab, standing jab, crouching forward, and sweep are your footsies.
Thanks Ultra D, I’ll put that in the Sim section.
Nice, thanks for the tips. I’ll put the st.mk on the back burner now. The main reason I was using it was because it had slightly more range than st.mp and seemed better at stuffing cr.mk from the shotos. I’ll also try to throw out those j.lp on sim’s back+RH’s. I freaking hate that move.
1- I don’t really understand using stand lk to ex hand. In what situation would you use that, to punish whiffed low forwards ?
2- I also don’t really understand using cr.lk in footsie wars, I mean I see people doing it in vids and everything, but I don’t get how it’s useful.
3- One thing I wanted an opinion about is the cr. RH (the long one). I use it probably too often and in the video it worked but many times they block it and punish. Is it maybe safe long range ?
I got into the habit of using it against sagat’s stand roundhouse but I’m thinking it’s a bad idea.
4- In what situations do you guys like to FADC ex-hands ? I seem to also have a bad habit of doing it everytime I get 3 or 4 bars.
Thanks guys,
I’ll post another vid in a week or so, this time longer my camera died in the middle of this one.
- Yeah, that. Assuming you start to see a pattern in what he’s throwing out, try st. lk to greenhand. I’m pretty sure it beats low forward if you time it correctly. This is risky though, as mentioned before, but I do it anyway.
- Assuming you can combo. cr.lk x3 to greenhand, if you’re timing your cr.lk so if you hit him once, you will hit him again into a combo, then you’re set.
- You should be using df roundhouse at max range and rarely and sporadically, since, like you said, it can be punished.
- I FADC ex-hands only when Ryu has a flaming red ultra and enough to cancel into his lovely shoryuken, fadc, ultra. Otherwise, I will save the meter for another attempt at knocking Ryu down (combo or reaction).
I wish I’ve recorded some of my matches. I had some good ones at the Fudruckers tourney. I especially wanted to get the one where Magus and I played.
Claw and Shoto Jump-Ins
Sorry, I suck, but I have a question about facing Claw.
When is the best time to lariat when he does his wall dive? What is the timing for hitting him when he tries to flip away from you? Does the lariat hit him out of that move where he jumps off the wall and flies straight at you with his claw?
Also, for the Shoto jump-ins, I kept reading about crouching then doing a lariat when they do jump-ins. Which lariat should I use? Does it matter? I can’t get the timing down on this and usually get hit out of lariat.
Thanks in advance guys.
From a certain distance, you can’t lariat shoto’s jump in RH. He’ll hit you in the head every time no matter which lariat you use. PPP is better for anti air. A lot of times, shotos get predictable with their jumping patterns so I try to meet them in the air with a headbutt. That usually deters them from doing it too much. And I’ll switch it up with crouch PPP lariat and that seems to work pretty well. At most, I trade with PPP lariat and then I get a free ex-hand. Oh, and throw in a cr. mp every now and then too. But you can’t do it when they’re jumping in from full distance away.
lariat isn’t a solid answer to sky claw. They usually win out. The preffered method (at least for me) is to focus absorb the claw, dash back (where they usually end up) and 360 as punishment. They will think twice before doing it again.