Zangief Strategy/Match-up Thread

Ueah I kindam entioned a reboot a while ago. I’d do it, but dont want it closed because “we already have this thread”.

I tend to stick s.mk out there randomly at the end of c.lp block string…it seems to be one of his faster moves and unlike s.mp, hits Ryu’s who try to c.mk or sweep after your chain. With that said, I still wish the range where the animation switches to the other close s.mk was extended, its an awesome move, but whenever your in a position to use it, you should be throwing.

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I think people will come in here and point out that this attack is unsafe on hit, so I would say it’s safer to assume it has little to no real application.

I say little to no, because it does have a different hit-box than S.MP, but I think it’s an incredibly situational attack, where you may have better options than playing footsies with it.

I know Ultra David has mentioned how awful this attack is before, but maybe it has one or two limited uses. Personally I wouldn’t say it’s worth the risk. It stays out for longer yes, but that makes it much much slower than anyone would like.

Hi,

I am looking for some advices for honda matchup.

If you have good option when he wakes up and against his vertical jump HP.

Thank you.

cr.mp. That works for a lot of wake up neutral jumps. I’m not sure if it works for Bison though. I tried that once and got stuffed. I think his foot comes down at an awkward angle. But I might have just mis-timed the attack.

If you know the opponent is going to jump on his wakeup, you can also neutral jump headbutt.

Ohh, I thought he meant on your wake up, the other guy neutral jumps. Well if they’re jumping on their wake up, you can beat them out 100% of the time with splash. You just have to do it a little early. Yes, doing a neutral jump headbutt is also a great way to keep your opponent on the ground on their wake up. I’ll throw that in from time to time when I see that they’re very jump happy. You can also do a meaty cr.short into lariat. It should catch them on their jump start up frames.

Quick question.

I know almost all the normal moves have some sort of application.

Is there any situation or priority reason to do MP Headbutt over HP? Why does it exist when HP headbutt is so much better in every way that I can see.

I almost never use jumping LP or LK. I used j.LP by accident yesterday and KO a Gen with it. It was kind of funny.

jumping lp is great(in situations). it beats out so many jumping attacks and has a good arch to it. it loses to something from everyone of course,(like guiles j.mk or hk) but you should not be jumping often anyway. j. mp is good as well.
Also for fun, if you have someone jumping in on you try to step foreward and jab. you will do the overhead jab and will knock alot of players out of the air.works good on the ken doll.

It’s technically faster on startup, so if you’re rushing to beat someone on the way up, you need all the time you can get.

According to the frame data ( http://shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Zangief_(SFIV) ), the DMG/Stun/Start/Recover respectively:
MP Headbutt: 100/500/4/6
HP Headbutt: 120/600/6/12

Of course with anything else in the game, the MP/HP differences in block/hit stun are increased from MP > HP.

Only times I’ve found the MP useful is like I said, on the way up. If you’re quick enough, you can get stuff some crossup games with this. I’ve also caught some people jumping in and landing the MP-butt before they landed. The HP I think is better for on the way down/lingering moments. MP is “useful”, but it all depends on the situation. Personally though, I just say screw it and try to land that hunk of HP-butt 600 stun damage.

Very situational indeed. I almost always use HP headbutt but I like to add more use of normals in my game when I can.

Lets say we are playing theory fighter, I get knocked down and Ryu is point blank. On wake up he neutral jumps but happens to mistime his jump and jumps in the air too late. Id assume I would be able to hold up and hit him with a rising MP headbutt instead of just jumping and have his neutral j.mk wiff and come down with a HP headbutt, which he can block but if he does anything else the the HP headbutt should beat it.

So if theory plays right I can get guaranteed rising mp Headbutt for 500 stun in the situation of someone neutral jumping me on wake up. Although, there are many better option. Id like to test this, but from what I’m gathering…it really is outclassed by its big brother. :wasted:

Crouching vs Standing Hitbox, and Footsie Game vs Balrog

Discovered this last week but forgot to post about it.

In most games characters hitboxes are wider when they are crouching than when they are standing, but this is absurdly so in street fighter 4. Or maybe it just looks like it because attacks pass through your character without hitting while you are standing.

Get Zangief vs Balrog in training mode and record Balrog him to spam his crouch roundhouse, then find the closest distance that you can stand without being hit by it. Notice Balrog’s fist is pretty much going into Zangief’s leg yet Zangief isn’t being hit. Now at the same position, go into crouch and you will get hit. Now find the closest you can crouch next to Balrog without being hit. It is both a much farther distance, and Balrog’s attack now hits in a way that makes more sense given the way the two character models touch each other.

Why is this important? If you are standing at max range of Balrog’s sweep without ever going into crouch, you can react to any attack from Balrog with a standing medium punch and hit him where if you were at the max range to not be hit from crouch the medium punch would whiff if you do it on reaction (too far to hit Balrog’s torso, the front part of the attack retracts quickly). Also, no low attack can reach you at that distance barring a low rush punch, so anything from Balrog can be reacted with a medium punch or block (for headbutt). Make sure not to touch crouch ever, because the transition from crouch to stand has an enlarged hitbox too and will have you get hit by a sweep. Rather, you can safely antagonize Balrog at this distance, harassing with standing medium punches and walking in and out of his poke range to either spd or scare him into doing a headbutt so you can spd/ultra it. A crouch would ruin the iron grip you have on his balls, and also there is no need for it since no low attacks can reach you.

Knowing you can stand that much distance closer to the opponent safely can make a huge difference in the footsie game. This trick also helps alot on Rufus and his crouching fierce punch. You can stand at max range of it and walk in and out of range of it, and press medium punch anytime you see him starting to stretch and you are walking backwards. If you are in range at that moment, you will block. If you are back out of range, you will hit him. Very safe to do this.
Also can react to Seth whiffed jumping fierce punch with a standing medium punch, which does a large amount of damage to him and doesn’t require any risky commitment on your part if the other player tries to abuse that attack.

Also something else related as a bonus vs Sagat

Sagat standing roundhouse does hit Zangief while he is crouching from pretty far away, but you can still get closer to Sagat when he does it if you are ducking then if you are standing. Close enough that if he whiffs any normals, then you can stand up and medium punch him in time to hit him. And if he resorts to tigerknees or fireballs to get you out of his face, you can lariat to trade with tigerknee or be crouching while holding downforward so that you react to the tigerknee or fireball with an ex greenhand, which will get you a knockdown. Playing footsie game with Sagat in this way will quickly make the opponent have to think about risk before tossing out attacks, and will make the match up a lot more bearable and less stupid.

I’ll ry the Balrog thing, I need to do it anyways, c.rh just destroys me because its so quick…input lag doesn’t help hehe.

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yes yes yes.:badboy:

How do you fight Sagat?

MY best option seem to be ex glow fist threw fire balls.

that’s probably the best option, or you can try absorbing them with light glow fist and SPD/suplex/super/ultra immediately but that’s very tricky and either requires a lot of luck or insane timing.

Often a lariat will catch him if he does that thing where he flies in the air and sits on top of you or whatever the hell its called.

After he learns, punish him with SPD while hes sitting on his fat ass blocking. (do it without jumping, o he’ll just jump and you will miss.)

I’d recommend just reading thru this thread.

For better or worse I’m going to put everything in this thread together for a reboot unless ya’ll object…too many ‘look here’ post in other threads with peopel comaplining about finding stuff rightfully so

Getting in on Sagat…know his angles/distances as well as yours…be patient (you’ll absorb chip deal with it)…and either beat him on a EX GH agaist a tiger shot, ore maneuver yourself to counter, wether it be j.mk from ‘a good distance’, ‘knees’, whatever…the main thing is you want a knockdown. You get a knockdown and you can ‘drain’ Sagat of a healthy clip of dmg via mix-ups and baits. Only AA of his that can be a well timd cross-up is a jab TU. I’ve got some other theories as well that I’ll discuss in another time or place using ideas posted by others.

Are ya’ll against a reset? I’ll try and get ALL the posted info and strategies posted in it.

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Can someone help me with Honda?

All the ones I’ve faced keep zoning me with jumping HK I think it is you know the one where he brings both his hands up like hes going to facepalm me, and it seems as though nothing beats it, and if I block it we both get pushed away its really annoying me >:(

i wouldnt lariat honda’s butt slam. never even trades for me, but FAs destroy it.