I find the j d+Fierce splash trades a lot with Honda’s Sumo Splash in the corner (esp the Short and Forward versions that hit on the way up). And it’s an unfavorable trade cuz it leaves Zangief knocked down while Honda is on his feet.
thnx 4 the info fellas. jus more honda crap to deal with. over on the honda thread, someone is complaining about the fake fb. sweet justice.
So the j. back splash trades? Honda has to be out of his invincible frames for it to be a clean hit. I’m gonna have to test that out again blitz. The only guy who does is Ego, but he knows better now lol. We all gotta get a reunion room going sometime!:rock:
Looking forward to it Mole. Your Zangief is one of the toughest I’ve faced, and watching you and Ego’s Honda go at it, is like watching twins play each other. It’s like you guys KNOW what the other is gonna do, and you respond in anticipation rather than reaction. I’ve tried jb splash vs Ego’s Splash trap and almost always trade, but you manage to stuff it. I think it’s cuz you do it only on the RH Splash which doesn’t hit on the way up, but IDK for sure.
IMO KKK Lariat is the best option.
On a side note,
I really think one of Zangief’s biggest issue is that his super is not that great. He really needs a different one. I mean if you get to the point in the match to where you can and do a super it’s not really going to do much more damage to the opponent than a reg SPD would have done, cause you’d likely have the opponent down to half or so and either one would KO. If he had a super that basically was a variant on his green hand, where it goes through fireballs and maybe does a slam of some sort at the end THAT would make the first half of the match, where you are spamming lariats for super mean something. This would also make it to where chars would have to be a lil more agressive as they really can’t allow you to just stand there and spam lariats and eat only 1 or 2 FBs. At the point that you have the super you actually become more of a threat, just like most of the better tiered chars and their supers. Gief with current super is ‘basically’, but not really, the same as Gief without. Besides Vega (who’s at the top), the rush for the super is paramount in most of the chars gameplan. Just this single change would allow Zang to be pushed far ahead of the middle of the pack and into Ken and Dictator’s range (maybe into the top), which is where he should be imo. Lastly, this would NOT make him abusive in the least bit, but give him what other chars have: A super that is useful and goes through fireballs.
Thoughts??
This probably fits better in the “Rebalancing ST Remix” thread, where we talk about all of the changes that we wish would occur. In fact, it’s funny, people in that thread were just saying that, given Zangief’s standing in VST, Sirlin did a good job with him. I tend to agree.
Plus, the change you’re looking to implement would, most likely, require a new animation. But, you could always go the Marvel route and make the startup of Zangief’s FAB look like the Running Grab and give the first few frames invincibility. Nah…I don’t like that, myself.
If the problem is that the FAB doesn’t get to do full damage by the time you get it, then the most practical answer, IMHO, would be to allow Zangief to build more meter with his moves. But, again, I still think that, even with Zangief’s standing in this game, he’s pretty good.
I’m sure you know who Haru Tejyo is, right? 
Look up his videos and see how he’s been able to stay in the top 5 in XBL ranked mode.
Your secondary option of allowing him to build more meter faster was what I originally though of. I think the animation could be a combination of the runup slam and the green hand and or the final being the SPD, I think they could jury rig it and it not look out of place. Maybe a double green hand and a run up SPD/slam all in one lol.
Ok yeah Haru Tejyo makes people look like nubs lol. Maybe Gief isn’t as low as I thought, but I’d like to see him and a few others place. Good stuff though and I never seen his matches till now.
IMO, Zangief’s super is one of the best in the game just because of the damage it delivers. The difficult part is landing it but with practice it shouldn’t be more difficult than landing a SPD tick. But I don’t have much problems charging my super meter. A good Zangief player should force their opponent to be scared to death to get near Zangief. In my experience, I normally have plenty of time to charge my meter while my opponent is attempting to zone me from a distance.
And this I know from up close and personal experience! I think you’re the reason why I didn’t play much competitive ST when it was out, Bob.
That and the CPU. What can I say? I was a rookie scrub then.
In practice, that 80+ % of the time or more a single SPD would have killed the opponent instead of needing the super. The super for many of the other cast can be used as chip damage and Gief’s can’t. I’m saying yeah it’s great if you land it and they are still over half life and you get the win, but that is far and away a much rarer occasion than just getting the win with a SPD instead, or just SPD them and landing with only one hit needed to kill. Lastly, the super doesn’t really give gief anything different (can’t chip and it doesn’t let him get closer). His super was not really thought out so well, given what other chars can do and his relative tier listing since before ST, imo. If he could get meter faster, to where the opponent has to be more aggresive with him to prevent him from getting meter for an early super, then it would add more to gief’s overall threat level.
I can get with you on the usefulness of his super, but…he’s a grappler! What did you expect his signature move to be? Anyway, if there were another revision after a fairly general consensus on Zangief’s standing in the game were reached, I think that if there were any change that was made to him, his ability to gain meter would be it.
But, like Kuroppi said, he doesn’t have a problem with getting meter, so if one of the best Zangief players out there doesn’t have a problem with it, I don’t have a problem with it either.
So, the more practical solution at the moment is to get more creative with building meter. There are plenty of videos out there to watch and glean advice from.
I like to beat the buttsplash trap by standing up to block the uphit from a LK or MK butt and that way if you stay standing then the second hit will miss and you can throw. Mix it in with lariats, spd attempts, and splashes to make going for the trap as much a risk for them to do as it is for you to be in it.
And zangief has no problem building meter with kick lariat, the real problem for me is the retarded new motion for the super I am too used to doing 720(one circle and a half) from whatever direction I was currently at and not have to go to forward or back to start.
streetfighterdojo.com: ST Zangief Page
I finally got the ST Zangief section up at streetfighterdojo.com.
The link is:
http://streetfighterdojo.com/superturbo/zangief/zangiefmatches.html
Yes, it’s ST and not HDR, but a good amount of it is similar and I expect HDR players will get some use out of the matches and extras.
Boxer is next in line.
Sweet, very nice. I finally get to see some Pony Zangief. I was hoping to see Jodim vs Honda, but I guess I’ll have to get on XBL for that. :shy: Thanks again zaspacer.
Might i suggest you add this match aswell to the Vs Claw section ?
[media=youtube]-F2eGjTmX8Y[/media]
It shows a lot of good things like Baiting Claw into a slide and doing a Jump-in and countering roll with lariat.
Also some ideas for how to trade with His keep away normals.
Aomori is also a complete monster.
^^
TWO PERFECTS!!! WHAT!!! Aomori’s Claw for the win.
**[media=youtube]UpTXrlWGx1M&feature=related"]8 - Kuni Funada (Zangief) vs. Ino (E.Honda) **is an awesome match. I always love doing wakeup reversal SPDs on meaty Slap-happy Hondas, but this one at [URL=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpTXrlWGx1M&feature=related&#t=1m18s”[/media] by Kuni…is…a…BEAUTY. Ino’s Honda was more than 3/4 screen away after the knockdown, but in less than a second, he’s being hugged by Kuni’s Zangief. 
BTW zaspacer, **[media=youtube]Tn0u_b36-GY&feature=related"[/media] **is not a winning match for Zangief, Honda wins it.
Is there truly no youtube vid of Jodim (aka Haru Tejyo) vs Honda? Damn, I’ve looked everywhere, ah well.
Or you can check out replays off GGPO:
http://streetfighterdojo.com/superturbo/GGPO/
Also, there are a number of HDR vids of him vs. Honda on youtube:
[media=youtube]lEPmp9EGBUE[/media]
[media=youtube]sbevFwohVhQ[/media]
Added!
Please let me know of other vids you’d recommend I add as well.
–
It’s weird, sometimes unless you get a mix of players, you won’t see certain counters being used.
Like with Chun Li vs. Dictator, you don’t see Dictator’s jumping counters vs. her jumps unless the Chun Li player isn’t a top player and makes the mistake of jumping carelessly.
Thanks for the heads up!
I have fixed it in both the Zangief and Honda sections.
You da mang zaspacer! Thanks bud. :pleased:
Edit: Aaaaah…:smokin: that was good for me. I love Haru’s style of extremely aggressive Zangief. Walking forward like a crazy man, taking just about every hit except Torpedos to get that one crucial SPD, and then not letting that fat bastard escape with safe jump mixups into SPDs, always into SPDs. Other Zangiefs will try and mixup SPDs with sweeps, but I’ve never been a big fan of that. That really helped, thanks again zaspacer. BTW, I found more vids of dat madman Haru:
[media=youtube]u-eWrKEgyLo&feature=related[/media]
[media=youtube]bg7u7HJquTQ&feature=related[/media]
Haru Tejyo’s Zangief Dojo by Eggo (43 vids)
Enjoy…:china: