I have no idea, find someone to test it with. I’d assume reversal TU would work because Sagat’s TU hits pretty far out.
Seth.
Against another Zangief, Abel, or T Hawk, I jump cancel my special moves on wakeup to make them throw invincible. Unless they delay the grab, you will grab them instead/lariat them.
That also makes you vulnerable to meaties. It’s a neat trick but against normal command grabs I don’t see the real advantage over just jumping besides confusing players who don’t know about it. I guess it’s useful against Hakan/Gief who might try to U2 your jump/backdash.
Edit: Also I don’t think it actually gives the move throw invincibility like a roll cancel gives invincibility in CvS2. You just have throw invincibility in pre-jump and so you can actually get thrown out of your lariat/whatever if the opponent delayed their command grab.
It beats more of your opponents options, therefore it is better.
You gotta teach me that! =D
You just hold up and do the special move (KKK Lariat for example) during your prejump frames. It’s similar to doing a standing SPD. If you do it correctly, the game will not count it as a reversal if you want to practice it.
I’m on a business trip right now, but I’ll throw something on here this weekend.
Alright here it is. And damn is it sexy.
[media=youtube]O54ma36rTMk[/media]
Thanks Meansaltine. I can now add a new Yomi layer to EXGH against T.Hawk, Honda, Hakan and mirror matches. 
The best part is that opponents usually don’t understand what is happening. They think they they are messing up their execution, which leads to side effects in other aspects of their game.
This changes the able matchup in zangiefs favor even more so good find.
I dont wanna be an asshole. But are noone else thinking about that if you commit to a jump cancle SPD, you might aswell vs.a char like abel just do a neutraljump. If he does anything that you can beat with air cancle SPD; you can get a bigger punish with neutral jump. If he doesa meaty, your gonna eat a combo or c.hp just as much as you would with a neutral jump.
I mostly use it vs. akumas aithrow, eating a palm doesnt really matter if you predict a throw. Much worse to backdasha nd eat sweep / ultra etc.
Don’t be silly. Your not an asshole for thinking that. And I’m not offended. Because you have a valid question. And my answer is based around the concept of “Pre-committment.”
Against a character like Abel, T.Hawk, Zangief, Honda, or anyone with a command grab. Where you COULD punish big, with a neutral jump combo, you have to pre-comit to that neutral jump. And a thinking opponent, would wait for your pre-commitment and punish you. Essentially, waiting for you to reveal your poker hand. And who ever reveals their hand first, usually loses. Thus something like this, pre-jump SPD, is more ambiguous.
I believe, it should be reserved for scenarios, where the opponent can command grab you, or Ultra grab you - BUT you can’t command grab them, or U1 them. Due to the un-throwable 2 frames after hit or block stun. For example, after the EXGH +1, any + hit attack reset. In fact, this essentially turns the tables on them. Because then, when your in pre-jump, they can’t command grab or ultra grab you - BUT you can command or ultra grab them.
Another yomi, another nth level thought process, another mind game.
Good to see, your using it. The more tools you got, the more your opponent has to think - the better for you. Can’t help you much, as I’m not up to the Akuma match-up. Still slowly on Sagat.
VS Akuma’s airthrow? You mean you use jump cancel lariat or?
Just like in the video, jumpcancle Lariat. For somereason, It would also beat out Palm with the same timing as the Throw. Im guessing its because Throw cant be 100% meaty. I have recorded it, on my shitty phone.
I started doing this because my friend (who uses abel) would roll up after knockdown and do a true 50/50: he would either command grab or air grab. Command grab beats blocking and any reversal; air grab catches backdash and neutral jump. Jump cancel SPD beats both options. Just a little way of covering one more base. I honestly don’t use it in any other matchup.
Hmm, smart!
OK, I hope I won’t get too much hate for asking this, but…
I’m a farily new player. I knew the basics and mechanics, but… I have no idea what to do on opponent’s wakeup with Gief. Right now, when I jab hand over, it’s basically me who has to guess every time if the opponent will attack, block, safejump or upback… which tells me that I’m obviously doing something completely wrong. And I know there is the whole option select thread from UltraDavid, but… maybe I’m dumb, maybe it’s becasue I’m an ESL, but I kind of still don’t know what to do, even after reading it. I’ve seen some people do a jab blockstring (or… something) on opponent’s wakeup, and I know that I can sometimes mix them up with splash or knees, but, generally, I’m lost as to what to do, and usually I end up getting safejumped and hit, or the opponent upbacks away from me.
So, I guess the question is… what do you usually do on opponent’s wakeup?
Gief’s options after SPD:
This leaves you far away from the opponent but it’s an untechable knockdown. You have 4 main options:
- You can whiff SPD to build meter, decent in matchups where your options and your opponent’s are similar damage and you have the lead (example: Zangief). When you don’t want to take a risk at all, do this.
- You can dash up, pretty interesting choice. From this range you can Far St. HK some characters who upback or walk into lp SPD range. Niche option that I haven’t used too much, maybe somebody else has options after this.
- You can LPGH to get closer, if you do it as early as possible you will be +3 against people with normalized wakeup timing, and at worst +0. This gives you options like a meaty jab, SPD, jumping normal (MP is best usually), or GH/EXGH to beat various options.
- You can MPGH to get closer, if you do this as early as possible you will be at +0 but you will be in range of Atomic Suplex and Ultra 2 on a lot of character’s backdash. Beware of characters with a faster wakeup timing that can punish you (Shoto’s mainly).
If you have questions on another of Zangief’s knockdown types, just ask.
Thanks. What are my best options against opponents after LPGH, so they won’t run away? Because right now, whenever I do LPGH and do something on their wakeup, 90% of the times I just guess wrong and get punished for it, or they just upback to safety. There has to be a way where I make them guess, instead of both of us having to, right?
Edit: also, what’s the best course of action after succesful meaty knees/splash?