Zangief Q&A: Ask simple questions here!

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
441

Well you can always just block/backdash ofc. But the thing you aren’t realizing is you are Zangief and they aren’t, your options hurt more and you take less damage so rolling dice is effective a lot of the time. Really you just have to make a read, or go for something like meaty jab, where only their riskiest option can hurt you. Try to think about your options in levels (especially if you are playing online) Example:

1st SPD I am going to block/backdash to see what he’s going to do. As you get better or get more info on your opponent, you can change it up.
2nd SPD I am going to make a read based on the previous occurrence and/or what resources my opponent has (I. E. FADC, He has no health, I have no Health, etc.)

You just have to think about all of the options and ask yourself, why would he do X over Y and how can I punish him for having a predictable thought process.

If by successful you mean you hit them, then just complete into a combo. Most basic bnb for Zangief is cr lp, cr lp, link cr. lk xx EXGH. If you mean you successfully safejumped them and they blocked it then you can pressure your opponent with either a tick throw or a string to punish it OR you can bait them.

Example:
They block splash into 2 crouching jabs. My options:

Tick into SPD. People who just continue blocking will get grabbed, this also beats some reversals. Obviously if they jump out, you will whiff SPD.

Finish my string with something to punish people who jump away from me. Because you cannot hold downback and up at the same time, you can finish a string with cr. lk into EXGH. Cr lk will keep them grounded and you will combo into EXGH. Strictly doing jab jab short xx EXGH is risky however, because they will block the EXGH if they were blocking the whole time. Your best bet is to do cr. jab cr. jab cr. short (confirm the hit) link st./cr.short xx EXGH.

Just do cr. jab cr. jab to block if you think they are mashing dp or something

442

I stay outside their normal throw range, and crouch block. Wait for them to react, and then I react. If no reaction, max range LP SPD from the crouch block position.

I think ultimately MPGH after the SPD is superior to LPGH.

As LPGH has only one purpose, to hit someone in pre-jump, and re-loop them into another EXGH combo. This however, requires pre-commitment on your end, committing to far mp, lk xx EXGH or variant combo, and you eat reversals as per usual. OK, maybe two purposes, after the LPGH, your back dash is much more viable as your further away. Thus long range reversals with many many many active frames, don’t hit you, such as HP Shoryuken or HP Tiger Uppercut. Whereas, if you went SPD - MPGH - Back Dash, you can’t go to town against these moves. And you get hit while air born.

To reduce the risk to yourself, you should rarely pre-commit to a move, after SPD - LPGH or MPGH or after hit of EXGH. Instead, you should react to what your opponent does, and punish it. This reduces your need to guess. A lot of what’s at stake, highly depends on your opponent AND is match-up specific. Like if they have a reversal, or a quality back dash.

For example, after LPGH or EXGH hit, you could crouch block for a slight pause (noting any reversals) then go into;
a) max range LP SPD. Performed as DB, D, DF, F, UF, U, UB, B + LP - must be fast.
b) walk forward far st.hk if they jump back
c) walk forward far cr.hk - the long trip, if they back dash (depending on back dash quality)
d) anti-air cr. PPP lariat, if they neutral jump

There are some options, that guard against multiple threats, such as:

  • EXGH beats back dash, and reversals
  • back dash, beats reversal FADC and neutral jump

Define best? See, you can’t LOL :wink:

Here are some possible options:

Guaranteed damage options:
a) cr.hk - not possible if using knees
b) PPP lariat FADC EXGH - absolute best option, but meter intensive. You get a cross-up after.
c) various EXGH combos

Reset/Tick options:
a)Tick into Ultra 1
b) Tick into forward throw - will ALWAYS be superior to atomic suplex, due to its safety features, ABS brakes, airbags etc, - except they can tech.
c) Tick into atomic suplex
d) Tick into HP SPD

443

So, basically, I have to guess which one of the 4 options do they do on wakeup, and if I’m guessing wrong, then I’m out of luck? Because that’s what I’ve been doing so far, and I always get it wrong…

Edit: hah, I was ninja’d by Evans. Thanks, I’ll try that… I hope I can react fast enough :slight_smile:
Does crouching PPP beat most neutral jump attacks?

444

Well in the simplest terms yes. But, you have to understand it’s only a guess if you make it so. You can always choose to not LPGH up to them, you can always choose your safest options, and the guessing game is almost always in your favor.

On other knockdowns where you get a safejump, no they have to block or get hit/OS’d.

445

To say it is a guess, isn’t correct. It’s only a guess, when you pre-commit. By pre-committing, you take the skill out of the game, and hope to get lucky.

If the opponent is facing a Zangief within SPD range. Now that’s a guess! That’s where THEY have to guess.

Because that’s what a 2 frame start-up SPD does, it’s so fast, that the opponent will more than likely, have to pre-commit. And once they show their hand, they give you the power to react. You just have to be good enough to confirm their action, and know what to do - how to manhandle them the right way.

Bitbna, I have to respectfully disagree with your opinion. You have to do as nature intended! If your a lion, you hunt your prey - you don’t go and eat grass. And if your a cow, you eat grass - you don’t go and hunt for prey. So for the majority of match-ups, you should always LPGH after the SPD - to close distance. But its what you do after that LPGH that counts. But generally, the most obviously threats, are the ones your opponent guards against the most.

446

Lol that sounds more fun, but I play for the W only. If I have 80% of my life on you, I am going to downback in the corner. If it’s Zangief v Zangief and I know I have the better footsies, I’m going to build meter instead of take guesses. Sometimes you win by playing in a specific way, and I am playing to win.

447

Yeah, I was referring to the majority of matches. Having said that. Not many characters can CRACK DOWN BACK.

Against Fei Long, Down Back, and cr.jab is a fortress - It’s Zangief Tank mode.

But if your opponent is the likes of Ryu, Ken, Guile, Sagat. You can’t down back for the win, especially if they have a slow projectile like Guile, Chun, and can couple it as a shield to pressure. Either they lame and chip you to death, or you stop that before it happens via KO, and occasionally time out. It’s more ugly than it sounds.

448

So a quick question from a fellow russian (I don’t main gief I’m just actually russian.) I’ve been trying to do kara spd’s after reading that thread that explains them. I haven’t been able to recreate them because I must not be understanding it properly db,d,df,f,uf,u,ub,b + light punch, anything after uf results in a jump regardless of how fast I do it.
I did however understand the concept and I started to do something along the lines of b,db,d,df,f(hold) and then lp. But thats just a half circle forward so when I refer to back and forward I mean where the hour hand would be at at 2 and 10 o’clock. It gives me the spd and since it ends in forward I do notice gief walk forward 1 full step and I’m still capable of pressing lp and doing the spd. Just wondering if I am doing it right because the kara spd’s i’ve seen the walk forward isn’t even noticeable. It is extremely slow too but the extended range is definitely noticeable.

NOTE: This is just for neutral kara spd for normals and jumps I manage to do it the way it’s explained.

Also is there anyway to combo into green hand (non-ex) and have it be safe. My bnb is cr.jab cr.jab st.jab st.short ex green hand and cr.short x 3 ex hand. When meterless I use lp green hand but I don’t know if I’m safe. Most people don’t even attempt to punish it despite it being -5. Is it much safer at that range or is it still a bad idea?

449

Don’t combo into regular green hands unless it’s to win the round, good opponents will punish you for it.

Eh, your only issue seems to be that you do the motion too slowly and you’re not whiffing something, press lk while you go U,UB,B and then complete the motion.

450

Kara SPD isn’t a normal Kara Grab. You buffer Upback into something (Regular throw whiff is my favorite) and then do a half circle forward and grab before the one up input falls off. It’s very simple, but a tricky timing to do 100%.

I end combos in Light Punch Greenhand all the time cuz yolo. I’ve never played against a player that will punish you the first time, but afterwards obviously they looking.

451

Your simply not doing it fast enough. This is a key distinguishing feature between playing on game pad, arcade stick, or keyboard. It really does make a difference. If you get neutral jump LP, then your too slow.

Well, we’re certainly not doing it to get the 500 reversal bonus points :slight_smile:

Yes, I believe there is, but it is limited. Either combos that result in KO or stun. Otherwise, L2 or L1 Counter Hit FA back dash, slight pause, HPGH for the knock down, useful when you get an expected crumple off of the FA.

LPGH is -5 on hit. So opponent’s can always punish you with throw or a combo or special that starts in 5 frames. Now for the gambit. If you FADC back dash, and waste 2 EX Bars, you are at back dash range, at -10. Most opponent’s CAN still punish you, even with Ultra. But they won’t expect it, especially if they are preparing to punish your LPGH, mashing and committing to a move. This means you are safe, as their combo counter would miss, while you back dash to safety. Depending on what they try, you might be able to answer them with a counter of your own, such as far cr.hk, for example, if they whiff throw.

If you can do cr.lk cr.lk cr.lk EXGH - WOW!!! Very impressive. I can’t and won’t ever do that combo.

It’s never safer at any range, where the LPGH is combo-ed, because you hit first, then move your whole body closer. So you will always be in range for a punish.

452

Thanks for the responses I’ll go back to training.
And damn evan quite a bit of sarcasm. I hope I didn’t push your buttons.

453

sorry about that chief. yeah. i may have over done it. :slight_smile: No hard feelings.

Any combo that starts with cr.lk is absolutely one of the best combos Zangief can do. So your Zangi is more dangerous.

For the SPD, once you hit UF, the rest of it, has to be super quick!

Best to show them that your a) patient - able to sit there and wait, and not desperate to go for the SPD at EVERY chance; and b) not a one trick pony - get them used to blocking a few far st.lk and far st.mp.

Then and only then, walk up and max LP SPD.

454

I am new to Zangief and have a few questions.

I was able to do all of Zangief’s trials on a pad and can do most of the combos on a stick. I just have trouble with combos ending in standing and crouching light kick xx EX green hand. I feel like I am doing it fast enough and, if I do it without the start of the combo, it goes fine (though 1/10 times it doesn’t combo).
What am I doing wrong in the combos? For instance, cr.jab x 2, cr.lk xx EX green hand I can’t seem to do.

When you land an SPD, you’re supposed to have enough time to lp green hand to the enemy player right? When I do it, sometimes I don’t seem to make it on time. I am trying to do it exactly when Zangief looks to be out of the SPD’s recovery, but I always end up not getting the green hand (early) or being late and getting close to hit.

How much time do I really have after that lp green hand? Is there a simply way of knowing exactly when Zangief is out of recovery or is this just something that will take time.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

455

You have to link the crouching light kick instead of chaining it, meaning there is a delay between when it’s possible to do the kick and when you need to do it to be able to cancel into a special move.

If you lp green hand as fast as possible, then you at at +3 against people with normal wakeup times (+0 against Shoto’s). So if you want the meaty setup, you need to do it accurately, but if you just want to cover distance you have the reversal window + 3 frames (5 against non-grapplers) .

456

You have to link the crouching light kick instead of chaining it, meaning there is a delay between when it’s possible to do the kick and when you need to do it to be able to cancel into a special move.

If you lp green hand as fast as possible, then you at at +3 against people with normal wakeup times (+0 against Shoto’s). So if you want the meaty setup, you need to do it accurately, but if you just want to cover distance you have the reversal window + 3 frames (5 against non-grapplers) .

457

Thank you. I had a suspicion that’s what I was doing wrong. Thank you for confirming.

458

Yeah watching great giefs like snake eyes and baby chan, zangitan really help step up your game. Silk on the other hand is just a mind reader so it’s hard to learn much from his play.

459

I notice that a lot of Blankas has started using Rainbowball reversal against gief a lot lately. Which is actually quite the anoying reversal to handle. I deviced a new variasjon of the option select that can only be used in corners(lariat), with something that can also be used midscreen.

c.lp ~c.mp~ c.lp <-- This will give a counterhit damage and reset blanka close to us, often without charge. If Blanka backdashes you are not in disadvantage and you will be in almost a neutral situation.

Il be posting a video with some tech I use later today, im sure its useful.

460

I haven’t really played since AE. What the hell are we supposed to do after hitting with EX Hand? I miss the crossup mind games.
Now it feels like hitting with just a plain hand and even spamming jabs, they reversal me or just jump/backdash away.