What options are there to beat T Hawk far s.hk? I know df.hk works sometimes, you can jump and pray they did it, you can sometimes focus crumple, you can guess EX Green Hand, and every once in a blue moon you can whiff punish or punish on startup with far mp. Anything else?
You just have to get great at whiff punishing it and making him whiff it a lot. Gief’s walkspeed is actually faster than his opponent in this matchup so you just have to get used to doing it.
But from what I know about T.Hawk’s far st.hk. The best reaction counter, is either walk in far st.mp - which I find the most reliable. And I remember far st.mk, which might be superior to the far st.mp because of the range, and how it hit’s his hk, aimed to where its retracting. Reaction EXGH is another option. o/s far.st.lp EXGH I find inconsistent, probably due to Hawk having 5 active frames on his far st.hk - and it often trades unfavorably.
far cr.hk is definitely an option, but haven’t tested how precise you have to be.
I believe jumping on reaction is of little benefit. And your only positive outcome, is to get in a well timed jumping mk - early enough to force him to block if he’s late for the anti-air, but late enough to give you some protection when you land, and go into a cr.lp string or back dash. If he’s on point, expect to see the rising condor.
Predictively, FA is the best counter in my opinion, but you have to get just inside the tip of his far st.hk. And start it up early, how early you set it up, determines whether you can safely go to L2. Otherwise L1 and back dash or forward dash on block confirmation.
I have another question. As I said before , I play pad and have PPP mapped to the right bumper and commonly use this for EX green hands. I’ve figured out how to do the cr.LK > EX hand option select, but now I have a more advanced problem. With the same button setup, how might I do a four/five hit combo into EX hand? Is it possible?
The same way? You just need to have the link down 100%. I play stick and my motions for os. pokes and during combos are the same.
To clarify, I do the OS by doing an SRK motion but doing the cr. LK on the down input.
I play on 360 pad too, what I do is (for an example) cr.lp >cr.lp > st.lp > Forward, down, down forward + cr.lk > PPP. Works 100% of the time for me, you can do pretty much every variation out there if you make sure you’re sticking the cr.lk OS EX GH motion at the end.
Hello everyone, i’d like a clarification of what Gief specials are strike invincibile and which ones are throw invincible, could you please advise? 
Thank you!
The combo of choice for me is cr.LP, cr.LP, st.LP, st.LK xx EX hand. The motion for it is pretty much the same as Macho described, but I use st.LK because it has a little more range and is easier for me since I’m a scrub and tend to mess up that motion when I end in crouching as opposed to standing.
I think Zangief’s EX Chicken Wing is hit invincible on start-up, and his regular tornado throw is throw invincible.
http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2008/jul/07/zangief-street-fighter-4-character-guide/
http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2008/nov/13/zangief-frame-data-street-fighter-4/
I believe the regular bread and butter combo, has always been. cr.lp, cr.lp, cr.lp, st.lk xx EXGH. And here are the reasons:
- 2 or 3 cr.lp, enough to get far st.lk
- using st.lp while making the link easier, will whiff on some crouching opponents.
- any cr.lk isn’t safe beyond the first blocked cr.lk
- cr.lp, cr.lp. cr.lk xx EXGH - is more spacing dependent. You may have to use just cr.lp. cr.lk - but that’s only 2 hits, harder to hit confirm.
My combo has always been cr.lp, cr.lp. cr.lp. st.lk. st.lk xx EXGH - Just mash those 2 frame links
But I’m getting a bit better with the bread and butter combo. Still not yet consistent.
SPD is not throw invincible, it will ALWAYS lose to Abel Tornado Throw.
Don’t use the EventHubs data for characters, it’s out of date. http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Super_Street_Fighter_IV_AE/Zangief#Frame_Data
lol thanks.
hey all,
does anyone know how to do this option select: cr.lp xx lpgh? I need it for a theory I’m working on, but I can’t do it!
thanks.
To do the option select you do the crouching light punch and banishing at the same time. Just keep the punch buttons depressed. If the punch hits the banishing fist will come out. If the punch misses you won’t activate the banishing fist
Hold down cr.lp, do the banishing flat with mp and hp.
Thanks. But I was referring to o/s cr.lp xx LPGH
I know its -5 on hit, but it has potential against Sagat’s far st.hk. I’ve discovered (I’ve actually discovered A WHOLE lot of concepts) that on reaction, you can nail its retracting recovery frames, and displace yourself on impact - A BIT FAR AWAY from Sagat. What that means is, you are too far to be thrown, and to far to eat the 3 and 4 frame normals, his cr.lp and his st.lk. And in this spot, I’m banking on him, not landing the 1 frame reversal into either a 5 frame normal or Tiger Uppercut.
I could mix-up between block, or offset my -5 using EXSPD or Ultra 1 if I believe they’re try to retaliate.
In this scenario, LPGH is the only viable GH. And cr.lp is the best o/s counter poke against Sagat’s far st.hk from outside range.
And that’s what I’m having trouble with. I can’t do this option select. Maybe the timing is very tight or I’m doing it wrong.
Also, since your the frame data expect - according to your sig.
What’s the total frames of EXGH? I think its 42, but I’m not sure, cause the active frames seem hard to understand. Need it to work on the theory the “EXGH warp” Basically, sacrifice 1 EX bar on reaction to the more laggy projectiles, to whiff and land within max LP SPD range for the scoop or Ultra 1. Could also close distance extremely well. Like 3/4 of the screen! Only works in theory against the very laggy projectiles, low tiger shot, ken’s hadouken, akuma and evil ryu’s red hadouken. With low tiger shot having 42 recovery frames = the entire frames of EXGH.
In practice, I can only get within 2 or 3 frames accuracy of when Sagat enter’s low tiger shot recovery. These 2-3 frames are offset by me warping into LP SPD range, where he can’t punish. However, that means, I can’t get a free SPD or Ultra 1. But I’m thinking with the very very laggy projectiles, like Goukon’s charged hadouken, Red hadoukens, it will be 100% to land. For example, akuma’s is 53 recovery frames.
Of course, if the total EXGH frames is much higher than 42. Then the warps use is more limited.
Negative edge it.
The problem is that Tiger Uppercut would be my go-to punish regardless of situation. You could probably get away with it very occasionally.
EX BF: 13(startup)+ (1+1) (active)+(27)(recovery)-1 (last startup frame and first active frame are the same frame) = 41 frames.
LP BF: 11 (startup) + 2 (active) + 21 (recovery) - 1 = 33 frames
EX Banishing Flat is 41 frames, but your understanding of fireball recovery is off. Fireballs are special in the frame data because they have ‘infinite’ active frames (unless it’s Dan, Oni, etc.) and the fireball isn’t tied to the character once it’s produced. The recovery listed for a fireball is actually the total move duration, not the normal recovery that is listed for every move. Gouken’s charged fireball doesn’t actually have laggy recovery once it’s out, it’s basically the same recovery as his normal fireball. It’s the startup that’s really slow.
Your warp would only work if you actually did the EX Green Hand at the same time the other player threw the fireball. Once they get the fireball out, about a third of their recovery is already over.
Are reversals on the same level of difficulty as 1 frame links? Or easier due to input leeway, if there is any. Because I notice, when you do wake up reversals. You get it ALL DAY.
Ah. that would make more sense. How exactly, do you then determine, the fireball throwers recovery frames?
Eg. Sagat’s low tiger shot: Startup: 12, Active: variable, recovery: 45.
Eg. Sagat’s high tiger shot: Startup: 11, Active: Variable, recovery: 39.
You say, the recovery belongs to the fireball, not the character.
So, Sagat’s low tiger shot stays on screen 6 frames more? And All of Sagat’s low tiger shots stay on screen for the same duration??? So the LP slow one, stays on screen for the same duration as the HP fast one? That’s possible, as the screen extends.
The reversal window is simply due to the large buffer window. The game accepts special/super/ultra inputs early. Not nearly as hard as a 1 frame link. You could mash out on reaction to the lp GH.
If you want the recovery for the fireball (that is, the character’s vulnerable period after the fireball is out), “recovery” - “startup” - 1 = recovery after fireball is on screen. For Sagat’s low TS, that would be 45 - 12 -1 = 32 frames recovery.
How long the fireball is on the screen has nothing to do with the startup or the recovery of the fireball animation. I’m only talking about fireball animations, not the fireballs themselves.
Sagat’s low tiger shot is done with the kick buttons, so there is no lp or hp Low TS. Punch buttons give you the high tiger shot.
lol, there goes that theory. might work once in a bluemoon, as no one is crazy enough to do it but me. so you would rarely see it, and never expect it. I wonder if sagat can reach you with his Tiger Uppercut, in 5 frames, from that distance. About half of his st.hk distance. You wouldn’t happen to know this, would ya. Kikuichimonji? If not, I’m back in with a shot. But I doubt it. It probably covers great range on startup.
Oh, I meant LK and HK low tiger shots.
By the way, what’s your main? It’s not the russian.