I can combo far sMK after far sLP. 7F startup after +6. Maybe you get more frame advantage when you do rapid fire LP? It’s the only explanation.
Not the only explanation. The s.lp could be hitting meaty because of hit reel on the other character, which would gain at the minimum one more frame of hitstun to link far s.mk.
But the real question is why end a combo with a move that is -7 on hit lol.
Yeah maybe it’s the hitstun that makes that combo possible. BTW when you hit with sMK your opponent is far away, I don’t think he can punish you. sMK is 90 damage, sMP is 70. EX GH is good for mixup but it does cost 1 bar and it does scale too much after 2-3 punches for hitconfirming.
But I don’t main Zangief, just trying something in training for fun.
Both ex-hand and s.mp gives a better position. because you will be at advantage with s.mp, and because you will be at slight advantage and upclose with exhand
is there like a list of every single option you have after an spd greenhand, detailing what each option beats and loses to? I only ask because as a basic gief player the things I use are:
c. lk
s. hk
block
spd
ultra 1
ultra 2
ex greenhand (for backdashes, invincible reversals)
neutral jump headbutt
am I missing any important ones?
st.mp works sometimes, cr.lk and cr.lp OS’s and backdash are all really important.
Yes. Back dash. If they shoryuken, you can tag them when they land or in the air with instant OTG U2. If they neutral jump, you can walk forward and great their landing frames with LP SPD.
Regular greenhand is an option, but only beats back dash. Losing to practically everything else.
Walking forwards is a pretty good option. You beat neutral jump with crouch lariat, You beat back dash with LP SPD, You beat jump back with far HK.
I find neutral jump head butt only beats their neutral jump attack and nothing else. If they jump back or even just neutral jump without pressing a button, you miss, unless you approached with MP GH instead of LP GH.
On your list I never use either Ultras. Ultra 1, they tend to avoid it. Ultra 2 can’t start up fast enough to evade shoryukens and grab them. They also tend to back dash instead of jumping away when you have it stocked.
I also never use cr.lk, because of the dreaded 1 frame link. I use stand MP to deter jumping instead.
kara-lariat can be good if they have shown a tendency to jump. But it is a gigantic risk on a bad read. I also like s.hp.
Ultra 1 can be used on the cases where you would do another SPD, whenever you’ve conditioned the other guy to block on his wakeup you’re free to use Ultra 1 if you’re confident enough.
Wrong, Ultra 2 can evade shoryukens and grab them, I’ve done it lots of times, lp green hand with buffered U2 works 100% of the time against shoryukens after an SPD, you’re right in your other statement though, U2 works more as a scare option after an SPD since their options become either throw a jab, block, or backdash.
cr.lk OS is a pretty legit option on their wakeup, clips jumps pretty consistently for me.
thanks for the quick responses! I have come to realise how useful backdash is after spd, especially when the opponent has meter to fadc
I know this question has been asked a million times, but has a general consensus for using ultra 2?
That’s the one thing I dislike about gief - both ultras are so useful in different ways that you’re always feeling like you’re missing one of your tools
I can’t speak for other people but personally I am using U2 always (even though when Super came out I was still using only U1 for a loooong time). U2 is good in every matchup, and while U1 might be better in some of them my view is that Gief has a bunch of close grounded punishes that do respectable damage and give him a mixup. There are certianly situations where U1 will punish what an SPD/Suplex will not, but I have to assume that other players are usually conscious of those situations. On the other hand, U2 is a completely unique tool that is always a threat but is tougher to utilize.
^
That’s what I thought, but i thought that there should be a reason why 90% of giefs seem to pick u1 in most matchups. And I agree about the punishment - for example a ken isn’t going to do a rh tatsu on gief knowing it can be punished with ultra 1.
The only problem is I just love 720 1 frame grabs- there’s just something to special about them. U2 is satisfying to land, but I don’t think anything feels quite as good as s. mp walk forward u1.
This should probably go in the matchup thread but there doesn’t seem to be much activity there - what do I do versus akuma? What can I do versus his teleports, especially when he has u2? It feels so stupid spending the whole time getting in to land one spd, then seeing akuma teleport away, reading it with a greenhand, but being u2’d.
Also aquasilk, are you going to do any more protecting the skies soon?
EDIT: my bad you did one not that long ago, I just got mindfucked by the title, thinking you were playing tekken - I don’t get time to watch the live stream
hmmm, if it could be done, it would be very tight.
So after LP GH your +3 frames, might be only +2. Then your pre-jump is +6 frames, and you have to activate U2 ASAP, on the 7th frame
Frames after your LP GH:
Frame:
0 Start Jump - Opponent still knocked down
1
2
3 Reversal Shoryuken
4
5
6 Air Bourne Shoryuken Active Hitting Frames
7 U2 activates
At point blank, you can’t do it. But after the LP GH you have a gap distance, that the shoryuken has to travel to get to you. So you get more leeway frames to activate.
With cr.lk option select, what are you option selecting, cr.HK? Never seen it used after SPD-GH.
Ultra 1 if you have godlike execution, and can do walking 720. Like Desk’s kara Ultra 1 - 540 motion in 7 frames. Or even without, if you know how to buffer it in both dashes and in jabs and shorts. Acts as an ultimate tick throw and punisher.
Ultra 2 requires great skill to land in my opinion. You can also get lucky, if you guess back dash or reversal when you jump at them. It shuts down many characters aerial moves and becomes a lot more dangerous if you can work them into the corner. I think you also need great reaction time, to activate when you hear “shor” LOL
I think Ultra 2, is ultimately the better ultra given the ideal perfect zangief. As any scenario, you can use Ultra 1, you can use HP SPD x 2, to make up the damage. LOL - But the barrier of skill required to use it, makes a weaker option for many.
It’s actually not that tough, I always just lp gh while buffering the U2 and as soon as I get there I release it, grabs SRK’s all the time, try it out.
cr.lk OS EX GH actually, cr.lk works well to clip neutral jumps, but the OS gives you better positioning whereas cr.lk alone lets the other guy jump back/backdash away.
Can someone give me the formula to calculate when a move its unsafe…cause i could not believe that ex phyco crusher was positive when done from far away. Thanks.
I don’t know, I don’t really like it. I prefer my kamikaze U2 to be the classic descending one - I think you have more time to react, with the other option to not commit. In your case, you pretty much have to commit on a pure guess or read. It will work if your correct.
Alright I think I get you. Your option selecting against jump or back dash. If they jump, you tag them in pre-jump with cr.lk xx EXGH. If they back dash, your dominate option whiffed cr.lk comes out. Because if they sit there and block, you automatically get the subordinate, cr.lk xx EXGH all the time.
If your cr.lk whiffs when they back dash, you can input GH to tag them. Because at +3, cr.lk is 13 frames, so your in 10 frames of recovery when they start their back dash. Say Vega’s back dash is 22 frames - that leaves you 12 frames to hit them. LPGH starts up in 11 frames, and HP and EXGH startup in 13 frames.
Dashes are very character specific, whether you hit them with EXGH or regular GH. Since they might be grounded by the time you slap them.
The formula on paper is just the - frames on block or hit; moves like spiral arrow can be spaced to hit late in the active frames to be “safe”. Bison’s psycho crusher is considered a projectile I believe (actually 2 projectiles) and is not the same as a move like spiral arrow or a meaty attack. I will ask m-16ghost about it and let you know.
Not disagreeing with you but almost every scenario you described can be caught with c.lk x 2 confirm EXGH. It is only 1 plinkable 1f link (still difficult) that will keep them grounded. Backdash will still get away but you can OS sweep during first c.lk, which I almost never do unless I have seen a bunch of backdashing. I get a ton of mileage out of doing just c.lk (pause) c.lk to whatever. Gives them enough time to reversal or jump, then act accordingly.
So m16ghost got back to me with this:
"depends on the character. some characters can punish ex-psycho on (point blank) block, others can’t.
the closer bison is, the safer he is due to spacing, but bison is at worse frame advantage (-16). bison can get +frames when he hits you with the tip (i.e. he doesn’t pass through you), but he’s right there in your face. in between those two ranges just about every character can punish him with something. so if your typical punish is fairly slow (ex-gh), then if bison hits you from slightly further away, he might be -10 or something next to you, but because gh is so slow, he’ll be safe from it. you just just spd or something instead.
if bison hits the corner, he will cut his active frames immediately and go straight into recovery. if you’re in the corner and i ex-pc through you, i’m safe (at least +0, gief ultra doesn’t punish)."
Thank you, but fuck bison