Thanks for the insight Ultra David. I have to say in my experience Chun Li is Zangiefs worst match up. Her normals are too good against Zangief. I just can’t get in.
Update on matchup thoughts:
Birdie 5-5
Cammy 5-5
Chun 4-6
Dhalsim 4-6
Fang 6-4: This is the only change so far, from Fang beating Gief to Gief beating Fang. I feel a patient Gief who rarely jumps can give Fang a tough time! Fang’s mine and upballs don’t offer much protection from 1/4 screen due to walk up spd getting past both. Fang’s footsie buttons aren’t the best either and can be whiff punished pretty easily by Gief because they last so long with their multiple hits. Those whiff punishes can be with buttons, but also with vtrigger, which can punish not just projectiles on reaction but also Fang’s down-toward+hp, st mp, etc. And while lot of Fang’s pressure is strong against many characters, I feel that Gief’s vskill absorbing both hits of whatever Fang does gives Gief a tool to beat Fang’s pressure that few characters have. I’ve played this matchup on both sides and have come to feel this way on either side so far.
Karin 5-5
Ken 6-4
Laura 6-4
M.Bison 4-6
Nash 5-5
Necalli 5-5
R.Mika 6-4
Rashid 5-5
Ryu 6-4
Vega 5-5
My opinion of the Fang match up has also changed! He seemed unbeatable when I started learning Zangief! Now I know the match up better. He’s not so bad.
Thank ultradavid. That feels about right so far. Dhalsim is tough but once you get in you’re going to do damage. The Vega matchup is tough for me. Any advice on what the objective here is?
Just played RayRays Chun and yeah it’s a tough mu lol. Still don’t know what exactly is safe and not but it must be nice playing a character with all those tools at your disposal smh. Such an uphill battle imo.
lol I say the same thing to my self. Must be nice being easy to use. Makes me feel better when I win.
Not gonna lie, I’ve been more frustrated in these 2 weeks playing 5 than probably the entire 8 years of playing 4 with Gief. I’ve lost to more terrible players in these last two weeks than probably any 2 years of playing SF4. You eat one random jump in now and it’s bye bye.
I keep running into players who are spending 50% of the match in the air. Hell after you c.HP them they go straight back up! The allure of hitting a jumping attack and target combo is huge online right now.
I just want a good reversal that you can use effective on reaction. this is so annoying. 7 rage quitters in a row, than I love against a full laggy mashing karin player, I was close to quit it man, lost 120LP and don’t get my LP for 7 wins… Ridiculous, I really hope they will punish these rage quitters really hard.
Can they please let Lariat hit crouchers and make it a better reversal?
To me, it’s already pretty good. Unless they are right on top of you for throw ticks, I just mash PPP when I sense Ken/Nash going for really obvious throws. At most they can increase it to 7f or something, but that might be too much.
Hitting those people 5 times in a row with headbutt is hillarious. For some fighting vs Gief is “the floor is lava” mode.
When you establish you can reliably TK AIR SPD it has the other effect of allowing you to land your grounded SPDs every time.
if they are going for tick throws It is all about beating thier options. if you go with Lariat it beats Jump, throw and slow attacks, but loses to fast attacks, and low attacks. I say go for exspd, it is unallowable and will beat anything 5 frames or slower, and only loses to jump and 4 frame attacks. Not to mention it is more than twice the damage.
Since i have been playing for a few weeks now, my opinion on matchups have changed. I marked the changes with reasons.
Birdie 5/5 jumping and blocking bananas changes this match completely
Cammy 6/4
Chun 4/6 this in my opinion is his worst but still winnable
Sim 4/6
Fang 6/4 this has changed to one of his best matchups in my opinion. Fang really has no answers to most of giefs tools once he is cornered.
Karin 4/6 i think he loses to a defensive karin as her pokes recover to quick to punish reliably with parry.
Ken 6/4
Laura 6/4
Bison 4/6
Nash 5/5 This one seems completely fair to me. I think Gief wins till Nash gets CA and then it is in Nash’s Favor as he can poke with 214K free from distance.
Necalli 5/5 he beats Necalli outside normally and Necalli beats gief in vtrigger
Rmika 6/4 your pokes beat hers, and parry kills her ways to get in. Plus you do more damage.
Rashid 5/5
Ryu 6/4
Vega 6/4
So totals
Favorable 7
Unfavorable 4
Even 4
he keeps moving up in my mind but since he loses to all three top tiers(bison, chun and sim) I think top 7-8 is his ceiling. good news is the tiers are so close in this i dont think he has a single unwinnable matchup. Even Chun gets loses several of her options against him as he limits the way people can play. I am loving this as no matchup is free and none are impossible.
I played a good Chun, and it was like the ST match up all over again. I know Snake Eyez got in Ricky’s love box, so I will try to re-watch that match up. First time I felt like there wasn’t much I could do with Gief. Still worried about Sim and Fang (when people actually figure this game out).
Lots of problems with Ken lately. I think my C HP or Lariat don’t work at all as anti airs against him, regardless of timing. Might need to switch to just standing LP, but I don’t know what to do against crossups.
I seldom ppp use it as anti air, part of why the transition to this iteration has been difficult for me is that ex greenhand and lariat were my “panic moves” in four. Lariat was brutal on focus attack armor! This game lariat is not nearly as badass and is dangerous to use. Its hitbox is weird too.
I use lariat defensively for off the ground moves that come at me horozontally (worlds worst speller over here sorry). Its really good against the move where Cammy launches hereself in a ball at you as has the multiple options (throw, sweep, divekick perhaps? Im not too familiar with her stuff). It usually just hits her out of it while she is still a ball.
Against jump ins, especially if they are on their way down it has failed me often.
Against cross ups, i think we are supposed to vskill fireballs so we have the meter to block the cross up then Alpha Counter
THE MIRROR
I played 20ish rounds with a guy from neogaf yesterday.
Its a very odd sort of match plays very different than Gief against anyone else.
There was very little jumping, lots of footsies, spds, and v skill.
One thing I learned is that ex bear grab on reaction to their vskill is awesome.
My opponent, who is/knows the game better said we learned that
- EX run absorbs a hit of VTrigger suction
And
- Trying to 6MK into spd instead just leads to you getting spd’d a large % of the time.
Anyone else having a hard against Kens? I’ve been playing against Kens in the 2500- 4000 LP range and the most trouble against ones that poke/footsie. Been sticking to cr.lp and walk-in headbutt but really having a hard time against Ken’s st.hk and cr.mp.