I agree I think Birdie blows up Gief pretty free if they’re good. Right now my strategy against Birdie is to just go in hard from the start and rush him down. Try to prevent him from setting up his banana/can traps and control the pace. I just play dumb in this mu and try to kill him as fast as possible.
my biggest problem with birdie are those cans and banana peel specially when he just stands in front of the banana peel cant jump towards him because even if you hit him with something youre still gonna land on the banana peel
It is difficult. I will empty jump on the banana to nullify it if I know there is enough distance from Birdie’s anti air. As long as you don’t press any buttons in the air you will not slip on the banana when you land on it.
also do you guys have any tips or practice session to do for throw reversals
gonna try this out later
My training partner is Birdie main and currently at platinum league. Due to that, i have played Gief-Birdie MI almost too many times. I can give in-depth breakdown later, if someone needs it.
That would be awesome. I’d love to hear any tips you can share.
You can also use the vskill. I recommend just jump in on it, though.
Man last night, i had an army zangief in rank. I think i played 5 different giefs & a lot of rematches. I dont think i won one single game, i usually do good with this matchup. My last match against an ultra bronze player & said fuck it time to sleep.
I barely see any Giefs when I play lol. Yesterday I played 2 and they both ragequit so yeah, pretty pathetic.
You guys can walk up and parry the banana or can, even walk up close and crouch block both. You don’t have to empty jump on it.
how do you block the banana if its already there
A Baby step then block. It’s also helpful against FANG poison.
oh yeah done that before with fangs poison trap
I wouldn’t trust parry since most Birdie players would stick close to the banana and be ready to punish you.
thats exactly what my problem is even if i do an empty jump im sure they’re ready to throw a c.mp then mixup
Exactly, great point. The banana/can is just really hard to deal with for Gief. It’s almost like a trap and we can’t get out of.
Yeah you basically have to try and get in but if the Birdie knows how to be a wall against Gief well you’re basically done.
Also his SPD needs hit inv, so far if he gets stuck in mix-up there is little Gief can do.
I’ve played with a lot of birdies of different skill level. I don’t think the match up is as hard as you guys think. I use st.HK and HP as my main tools at distance. St. LP is a great weapon for stopping bull revenge (even EX). When I see them trying to use vskill, I just dash and SPD. And just block the banana.
Birdie is definitely a hard matchup for gief. Against actually good birdies(aka ones that aren’t dumb) trying to mess with his banana is begging to get punished hard.
A useful thing I learned from stupendous playing at wnf is that avant vega, if you block his f.hp, you get a free cr. jab at every distance I think, maybe except if he hits you with the very tip.
It’s not much but deterrence is deterrence,
Here is the breakdown i promised. So, Birdie vs Zangief. Im going to break the matchup down to different zones or situations.
The struggle of neutral game against Birdies gigantic buttons and AA:
Do not, i repeat do not press buttons at mid to longrange. Your only button should be cr.jab at jab range. Maybe standing HK at maxrange to fish for CC if you like to yolo. If you try play footsies there with standing MK for example, you are going to eat standing mp xx bullhead. Thats 177 damage, you lose all positioning and Birdie can setup free can. Birdies standing mp is 7 frames, has almost no wiff recovery and will stuff your buttons. Birdies standing mk is also very annoying for Zangief to deal with. It can actually catch your forward jump while you are airbone, because of Zangiefs giant hurtboxes. Birdies cr.mk is spacing tool, that puts you on mp xx bullhead range on hit, or block. So dont try to walk forward after that, you usually get tagged. Birdies sweep is very very dangerous. Zangief cannot punish it at max range. Good Birdie player will just sweep your charged standing HP on reaction, so dont rely on it. If you jump and Birdie anti-airs you, you are put to 50/50 situation. You have to jump at Birdie at some point, but dont put yourself to bad situation without reason. Everybody also knows how bad can and banana peel are for Gief to deal with. Your V-Skill is useless, Zangief cannot flex and punish any of Birdies normal. Birdie can just punish the flex with jumping grab anyway.
So, how you actually win?
Gameplan, the (Yung) Art of reading:
The thing is, you dont have to go in on Birdie like a madman. Just chill where his buttons dont reach you or at max range where you can block them. Birdie CANNOT rushdown Zangief at neural. If Birdie-player is a nut and jumps at you for no reason, just AA him with standing jab/lariat. Standing jab puts Birdie at meaty/SPD 50/50, lariat for damage.
Look for patterns, a way to get you in. Does Birdie sweep at pattern? Maybe f+mk over it and SPD? Far jumpin HK beats Birdies cr.mp, he must use standing mp to AA. Check if the Birdie knows that. Does Birdie react to dashes? Could you possibly dash LP SPD/EX SPD? You are going to eventually get in, even once in a round is enough. If you land LP SPD, just walk forward and see how Birdie wakes up. You cannot pressure him anyway, see what his habits are. When you land that EX SPD/HP SPD, its vortex city from there. Birdie has to guess if you are going for command grab or meaty. He has invincible to throws command grab himself, but it loses to meaties. EX Bullhorn loses to SPD. You need to make the right reads. 2-3 right reads and you win the game. Thats a life on Zangief. If you read wrong, well… that cannot be blamed on MU, just a wrong read that happens.
This part is IMPORTANT. If you have a big lifelead, just chill at mid to longrange. Like i said, Birdie cannot open you up if you stay solid. He can EX Bullhead in and cancel to V-Trigger, but that doesnt really matter. Birdie gets also his damage from opponent being reckless or reads. "Yo, ya saing that Birdie cannot open you up? How about those banans, cans, jumping command grabs and random chains??"
That brings me to next portion:
How to deal with Birdies breakfast and chainy stuff:
Random chain is punishable by jump in. Just hold upforward when you block it and to combo that suits your range.
When Birdie bananas, dont do anything. Dont go in. Just wait it out outside the max range of his sweep. He cannot go in on you, just respect the banana
and ignore it. By the way, if Birdie plants random bananas constantly at neutral, just jump HK that startup. Its mad long.
The energydrink can of doom can be tricky. Dont get walked to corner. I usually just walk forward and block. AA Lariat if Birdie tries to jump on you after blocked can, normals
get stuffed there.
And our favorite, the jumping grab AKA infinite, unblockable or Bull Revenger.
Neutral jump those on reaction, full combo punish. Remeber when i said that Birdie cannot rush you down if you are solid?
This is the move Birdies do when trying to get a comeback. EX Version in particular. You should never get hit by this gimmick.
I still get hit by EX when my brain freezes, but look for it if you are turtling Birdie out.
Random Notes:
Birdie has no real meaties mid-screen. If you get hit by HK chain or bullhead, concentrate and look for cans/gimmicky stuff.
After forward throw Birdie gets standing HP meaty, nothing to be feared. After LK chain its 50/50, he can pressure you with normals or command grab.
If you get hit by EX Bullhead and put in to corner, good luck. Birdie gets meaty on everything and if in V-Trigger, his damage is insane.
Timeouting Birdie is legit tactic. Just have the lifelead and play as solid as you can. Hopefully its good enough.
EDIT: Almost forgot V-Trigger. Basically use it in punish combo or try to catch Birdies limb/ banana throw at neutral. Is not that good utility wise in this MU.
Closing comments:
English is not my first language, so spelling errors will occur. Sorry for those. I tried to make this as informative as possible, while still trying to keep it enjoyable to read.
I have played something like 130 ranked matches in total and im sitting at Gold league as Gief. My winrate is something suboptimal like 67 % ,so im not the strongest player, this is just my view and tips on how i play against my training partner and friend, who is currently at Platinum.
I can post replays of me playing against him. I can also offer tips anything related to Zangief, another MU opinion, general tips Etc. if anyone considers them worthy or helpful.
Just want to spread muscle spirit!