Maybe I should’ve specified more.
When you don’t have CA, it’s hard to convert hits into anything, given how unreliable Lariat can be. Going into resets is only gonna work against average players, smarter players catch on more quickly.
Watched the playlist, really amazing gameplay, your punishes are on point and you dont lose composure (i can see that, especially in your match vs tyrant). And popi is a beast too, he beat infiltration at dreamhack a few years ago. I see you rarely use lariat. What are your AA options? Thanks for the uploads.
The posts in this thread are very “other characters dont have great tools so Gief shouldnt have them”. If everyone thought that way, every character would be even more ass and then the game would play terribly. Lariat should be godlike as an anti air, especially if he can no longer use it on wakeup like he could in 4; it should he flagged to beat any air attack if you time it late sorta like a dp, because jumping in on a grappler should never be a smart option, especially considering his wakeup is garbage.
SPD being 5F sucks donkey balls, regardless of the range it has. Hes the only pure grappler with mediocre mobility (Mika has dropkick, slide, and a faster dash.), and he gets no pressure whatsoever after one (jumping after one is AA bait and dashing leaves you jab punishable) so youre only getting about 180 damage from a 5F command grab that is his only menacing move up close and is EXTREMELY punishable on whiff and loses to some normals, while also resetting him into a range he doesnt want to be in after working so hard to close the gap.
EX SPD no longer being hit invincible is a huge loss, since now he has to rely solely on EX RBG. The thing is, EX RBG has slow as fuck startup and afaik **the armor isn’t even from frame 1!!**This means unlike most other characters, he always has to deal with the meaty or throw mixup unless he has full meter for super. Against characters like Cammy, Karin, Chun, or Mika (who he basically also loses the neutral to) you better fucking guess right or youre going to get cornered and then its basically gg better luck next round.
I’m not saying he’s ass, in a vacuum some of his tools are great; however, when combined and compared to most of the other characters, he is sub-par and imo loses way more matchups than he wins currently. I would put him around highish tier when just looking at tools exclusively, but only low-mid or high-low tier when taking matchups into account. The other character who is supposed to have super lopsided matchups (sim) is way better in both aspects imo (wins his good matchups more dominantly, and cam better compete in his bad matchups.)
Agree or disagree, try to make a detailed and as unbiased as possible argument whether or not you think I’m right. Dont just hit disagree and walk away like a fuckface. Discuss.
That’s weird, shouldn’t Birdie’s EX command throw (4f startup) be the only attack faster and able to beat a gief’s command throw if he already performed it?
Even normal throws have a 5frame startup.
Thanks for the kind words.
I’m not used to playing a grappler, I mained Guile in SFIV which is quite different, so I really had a rough time, especially in the beginning.
But yes, I tried to remain calm at all costs, I mean Zangief deals a lot of damage and u can’t get chipped out, so u shouldn’t worry too much about your health.
Lariat is a pretty good AA if u time it early, and it was my main AA in the first few hours of the Beta, but I soon realized that cr.HP also works as an AA, and unlike Lariat, it drops the opponent right next to you so u can follow up with an SPD or f+HP.
So I’d say stick to cr.HP to AA jump ins, and st.HK for dealing with neutral and back jumps.
They weren’t throwable. Ibuki and Abel were the only characters that could “throw” him out of it IIRC, and that was because they had throw-invincible throws.
Yep there’s no reason to think that normal throws beat giefs SPD if done at the same time or later since they are both 5 frames. I think snake eyes was used to doing wake up normal SPD in sf4 so he tried that in sf5 and got thrown out of it.
SPDs possibly losing to throws is irrelevant imo.
You’re usually SPD-ing someone after locking them with normals, outside their throw range, or as a meaty. You should never be thrown out of your SPDs if you’re timing it right.
For someone that mains Guile, your Zangief is amazing. You took out Tyrant and Popi twice and even took out a Birdie player. I can’t seem to do anything against good Birdies.
I really want to know how you keep catching people with SPD on quick-standing, because I’ve tested it over a dozen times and everybody jumps up on reaction.
Also why choose Zangief and not Nash if you are a Guile main?
I agree with FreshPrince. The way they designed this version of Zangief, SPD is his only really good move outside of poking people to death. His SPDs should be 3 frames, even if that means bouncing people away. It makes no sense that Birdie’s EX command grab is faster easier to execute than Zangief’s.
As a character who has to fight very hard to get in, people shouldn’t be able to run up and press buttons and throws safely when he finally gets inside of SPD range.
