Try it again Raz0r, I am able to hit jab spd after v-reversal every time so long as they don’t block it or jump. Obviously it isn’t a good idea to spd after v-reversal every time. I like to mix that up with jab spd, st.hk, cr.jab, or air spd depending on the situation and read.
I’m pretty sure Gief’s only wakeup options are defense. Block. On occasion I’ll wake up with ex RBG if I think they will do a non-meaty poke.
Why only non-meaty? Does ex RBG not get its armor from frame 1?
Armor begins on frame 3
Spot on @Mesenkomaha. I haven’t been able to play since the patch dropped but bo3 will help Zangief a lot in ranked. I hope Capcom makes it mandatory, at least for higher leagues.
ex SPD if I think they are gonna throw me.
Other grabs generally have less damage, less stun, shorter range, slower startup and don’t give oki like Zangief’s. If you have them were you want them, (Knocked down and hopefully in the corner.) the risk/reward is undoubtedly better than for most characters. GETTING them into that position is what’s difficult.
We were speaking specifically of situations were you are at frame advantage and they have to guess. At that point they have no choice but to be afraid of it.
A mixup is mixing grab with other attack options. Other characters may have less intimidating grab but their other attack options are stronger than Gief. Just like Gief’s grab is stronger than theirs.
i have struggle with gief that i can only play him really good in around 10 games, after that, my mind is hurt so bad that i cant even bear a single mind game. Necalli is my solution, he is much easier and i can rest my mind a little bit.
Don’t really think Alex plays much like gief. He can do the tick throw trick, but that’d be it. Gief has still the way superior range, and the less ranged SPDs outclass the damage in Alex arsenal. Also dantarion shows an extra frame in the activation of the gran compared to gief.
Alex is weird in that I feel he jumps way too long, and his crossup is LK. Also his crouch MK surpasses Gief’s cLP but he cannot combo from it I think.
Feel he is a faster Birdie, without the chains and annoying Vskill. Would have to see the frame data but I feel a lot of his stuff is insecure. We are mostly unsure what to punish right now.
One thing is he cannot be jumped on like at all with Zangief. That knee grab will come out at the last nanosecond and nail you. And even then, his other option are still good. cHP, standing HP and even sHK?? will antiair without much problem. And he is tiny so some airkicks will miss him if crouched.
Alex is the ryu of the grapplers in sfv. He has various tools remenescient of the various tools possessed among the other grapplers which gives him far more options and utility, but he doesn’t particularly excel in any category. His primary trait is that he’s able to produce as much stun as gief almost despite dealing far less damage overall.
I understand what you mean, sort of how Block beats Shoryuken =)
SPD loses to neutral jump for a neutral jump combo, and back dash into forward dash for a ground combo. For example, against SPD, Ryu is +7 frames after a complete neutral jump (although he can attack earlier), and +15 frames after a back dash into forward dash. So, it is definitely risky to go for the SPD. But as a move, it’s **feared and respected by the opponent. ** Because it can crack down-back, and they can’t tech! With the LP SPD having good range.
Zangief’s strength in the mix-up is not the SPD itself, but the threat of the SPD. To force the opponent to **commit **to an evasive action, such as jump or back dash, and for you, as Zangief, to be there, hopefully in some kind of reactionary capacity **react **with the counter, or at least be there with the counter.
The SPD-Dash game can be played Russian Roulette style, SPD or Standing HK, but it doesn’t have to be played that way. Depends on your level of risk. Sounds like these guys are keeping you honest, because your bluffing way too much!
Switch gears, and don’t give them those favorable odds. Tag them in pre-jump, wait for their neutral jump commitment and then tag them, or use regular throw to reduce the risk to yourself.
The odds change for Gief when he gets VT and or CA, because then it feels like he’s playing with a full deck, and can hit every out.
Actually the backdash nerf in SFV helps giefs opponent has to comply with the real mixup mixup pressure, instead of the backdash free escape in SFIV
On page 28 a user named Joe Lewis noted that the fear of getting command grabbed is there once the word fight is on the screen. There is a significant psychological factor in being SPD’d. I played a Gief mirror match last night in which I got absolutely blown up the first two matches in a first to five and screamed like a girl when I got SPD’d over and over and over. (https://youtu.be/Du2Me5RiDcQ 7 minute mark if anyone wants to watch the Zangief vs Zangief set)
But here’s the thing. I figured out that the player was churning and mashing out SPD without regard to proper spacing and footsies. It clicked for me when I had the idea that he only cares about hitting command grabs where my play style is a big old whatever to throws until the right opportunity comes. With this knowledge I was able to formulate a game plan that kept him out of easy spd range in neutral, but if I pushed him to the corner I was able to bully with s.Mk, c.jab, s.HP, headbutt, and the anti airs to keep him there.
I ended up winning the next 5 matches in a row to take the set. The point is that the throw game was so easy to figure out and to beat. Sometimes the threat and surprise of the SPD is much stronger than trying to use it for every situation. Take V reversal for example. After you land that it is easy to mash out a jab SPD for nice damage. The issue is that on a neutral jump you not only are going to eat a combo, but you lost a V bar and now your spacing is a mess. Very high risk for a decent reward. Rather, I’ll still try for the jab SPD on a my first V reversal of the match, but I like to CR.jab afterwards for a bit more pushback or to get the bit of white damage taken off if they are pressing a button. They’ll usually try to jump after V reversal too so you can get a nice air SPD read.
The problem with the char is that he doesn’t make you pay hard enough for trying to avoid the grab, and he gets blown up almost as bad as if he went for the grab anyway. If they crouch your st.HK, most chars can full combo punish. If they backdash or stand still air SPD whiffs and you eat a full combo.
Speaking of st.hk getting blown up by crouchers. This is one of the main problems Ive been having. Every bad player online just seems to love mashing sweeps so every time I try and st.hk I get blown up. It’s not because they predict it or have a read. Its because they’re just mashing an attack while they’re crouching and it’s always gonna be rh from a scrub. It’s beyond aggravating.
Having the same issue. We might have to swap out st.hk for headbutt or st.mp at close range.
I’ve learned to rely on st.hp alot more than st.hk as a meaty /anti jump option/neutral button unless I’m convinced that they are most definitely about to up back and not stay put mashing something.
St.hp uncharged is low key reallllllllly good, as I’ve learned from both watching stupendous play at wnf and testing it for myself in matches. St.hp
Not only is it very easy to hit confirm into v trigger with it regardless of regular hit/CC (giving you the option of either short suction into CA and keeping your v trigger mode, or using the entire v trigger for the cyclone combo) but it also has a reset opportunity when CC’D like with CC st.hk. after a CC st.hp, you can land st.hk and create a reset situation identical to the spacing of a meaty st.hk where you’re in range for ex spd or if they are aware and try to avoid that, you can air spd or potentially land another st.hk.
I’m actually surprised how good throwing out a spaced Uncharged st.hp is
I have been meaning to post about this for days. At distance this is now my go to poke. Beats so much shit and the damage off of vtrigger confirms are scary. And upper body armor at frame 3. Finally a button that people fear.
I need to go to training mode and see which characters get more than a jab punish when you properly space it. The only one that has done it yet is Laura.
Correction no one can punish it with anything on block from max range. This is awesome.
Neat. I’ll start tossing it out some more. It can still be beat by lows I guess, but at least if they crouch and DON’T do anything, they still have to deal with it. Unlike with sHK.
Thanks for testing it thoroughly.