U just have to feel it… Gief is so pringles…
Err pardon the nub quesiton, but… “level 2 ultra”?
yeah, you know, when it’s ON FIRE
Oh… oh right. Duh.
well here is a question…with regards to the whole dizzy thing that zapped a page. So you stun someone, what do you feel is the best folow-up?
- Straight up ultra/super - dmg is scaled but its garunteed damage
- tick -> ultra/super - folks depending on level are mashing trying to get out, sometiems you can get away with a tick here and get max dmg…but its no longer garunteed
- RBG - its a taunt, and puts you in great positioning afterwards to ‘bleed’ excess damage beyond just the ultra. Especially against folks you ahve to work so hard to get that positioning on Sagat cough cough hack WEEZE
- Combo w/ knockdown - akin to RGB but with no taunt, harder execution, not sure about the meter gain on it, would vary depending on the combo, but demoralizing someone with a ten hit Gief combo - depending on how they got dizzy - is akin to Dan’ super taunt. You can bleed dmg like the RGB, but ultra level dmg isn’t garunteed.
- FA -> Ultra - I think the verdict that this is a waste has already been stated
- FA->tick->Ultra - would require some timing practice, but wouldscore even MORE dmg than dizzy -> tick -> ultra, as you get dmg redux on FA, but the tick remains 1-hit and the ultra is 1-hit.
Its just been floating around my head lately as I’ve gotten better and better at scoring dizzies off headbutts…I’ve been thinking of trying FA->tick->ultra and trying to get that down…but can’t figure out which way to go with it. shrug
- :bluu:
Ultra gets you just as good positioning after knockdown. It takes them just as long to get up from ultra as EX SPD. The only time when I do not ultra or focus->Atomic suplex is when I’ve dizzied them from a combo. I’ll try the focus tick into SPD or ultra. I use cr.lk as the tick. If you get a dizzy off of a headbutt. Just ultra. I don’t know why you’re still conflicted as to what to do. Why on earth would you do RBG? You can get equally good positioning with focus>atomic suplex or just ultra.
Its not really a conflict, its me expanding my horizons beyond stat quo to see if there is more there. so I land a dizzy…fine go for ultra…which will get a redux in dmg. Or I can go for a tick into ultra to reset the dmg redux, or I can start that off with a FA->tick->ultra for even mroe dmg. But what happens when you dizzy someone within the first ten seconds of the match? When you have no ultra…or you get the dizzy because you’ve frankly kicked their ass? Its a question akin to “I landed a c.jab, but I have no EX meter…do I turn the c.jab to c.lk and throw, or do I finish the string with more c.jab->s.mp?”. I mean isn’t it the RBG thats gives you an inane amount of meter for performing it? so I can do spd level dmg, with great positioning, without using meter, I’ve pushed them MUCH MUCH MUCH further into the corner, and I’ve GAINED meter so the next time I can actually finish the combo or if I screw up and get blasted back by say a tiger…I can work my way back in using the meter.
I’m not saying its the ‘goto’…“Hey I gott’em dizzy! RBG all day baby!”…its more “Oh snap they jumped into a second headbutt, what are my options and which one will be the most effective?”
- :bluu:
You get more meter with atomic suplex and that moves the opponent farther into the corner than RBG. I’m just saying all your other options are better than RBG. More meter, move them closer to corner, more damage, and same wakeup advantage. So there is no reason to use RBG. If you have no ultra or super, my calculation is based on how many times I’ve already hit them before they were dizzy. If I’ve hit them more than 3 times, then it’s probably not worth it for me to hit them with focus into suplex. I’ll either just suplex or I’ll try FA tick throwing. If I got them dizzied off of one hit like the headbutt, if no meter, I’ll FA into atomic suplex. If I have meter, I’ll just ultra or super. It’s scaled a little bit but it’s still substantial guaranteed damage.
RBG is fun. If I have the opponent dizzy, chances are Gief will win anyways. Very slim that I face an opponent that is having me on my toes and then I get him dizzy. So in that case, I would say *“Hey I gott’em dizzy! RBG all day baby!” *. And on top of that, the insult to injury is great.
This situation to me is not something that you would be trained incorrectly with by abusing scrubs. This is a matter of picking a card. If I’m playing a good player and i DO get him dizzy, then its easy to think “Oh snap they jumped into a second headbutt, what are my options and which one will be the most effective?”. You have all the options in your mind, and you know what one is the best. Its just about how much guaranteed damage do you feel like doing. When playing online atleast, sometimes I have the option of doing Ultra and just demolishing them but then I’ll just do normal SPD so the fight can not end so abruptly.
IMO, every dizzy scenario stated is very good and some are better than the others, but none of them are bad at all. The discussion “What is the BEST to do when Dizzy” vs casuals doesn’t matter at all. But if this is tourney peoples we are talking about I would have to say go with Suplex or Ultra.
**Unreally, Nice Sig 
LOL I think all Gief players giggle a bit at the concept…sorta like Hugo in SF3 with the the ENDE thing…you can just sorta picture the rape face as he grabs them.
Well I pull a fair amount of dizzies just because of the headbutt properties, even in tight matches against good people…so its a scenerio that pops up ‘regularly’. I’ve been trying to use it as a meaty (safe attack whatever the correct terminaology is for wake-up jump attacks), but online timing is just ‘ugh’. Anyway, because I get those dizzies so much, and the way I get them is honestly 60% of the time within the first 15-20 seconds, I rarely have ultra or barely have ultra on dizzy. If I get a dizzy after like 40 seconds or so, more than likely a fierce SPD would kill them…so from a practical discussion on post dizzying comboes,I only assume I have one meter and no ultra. Now honestly, I get the animations for RBG and Atomic suplex mixed up all the time because its my main mix-up tick (the positioning afterwards is to great to pass up and its so easy coming out of knees, though its throw counterable)…so I’ll take your word that Atomic Suplex is the ‘variant’ I want (shrug).
I guess my next question though is to compare the damage of…to keep things simple (and at work so I don’t have a console to add up values myself)
headbutt headbutt dizzy FA c.lk atomic suplex
to
headbutt headbutt dizzy splash c.lp c.lk s.lk EXGH
any help would be lovely…
- :bluu:
^ I am 100% sure that you have access to training mode, which has a damage and stun counter in it
Post dizzy:
- Ultra
- Super
- Lv3 focus, ex close 360k (if meter is unimportant or need just a bit more damage)
- Lv3 focus, close 360k
Adding in the tick shots to reset the damage counter seems way too risky for not a lot of gain. Most opponent’s I know would jump given this opportunity and then you lose the huge gain you could have had from the dizzy in the first place.
Its just seems too greedy and too risky.
Yeah eventually I’ll ahve access…just trying to get some help on it now so I can marinate on the drive home from work…don’t know when I’ll get PT either, got a second job with my side business (arcade cabs 4tw) finally taking off.
So you think trying to reset the dmg with a tick isn’t worth it? What about what I mentioend in another thread
Dizzy->FA->c.jab->c.lk->c.lk->s.jab->s.mp (should just about wiff, if not add moar c.lk)->u/b to fwd jab spd…you get dmg reduction on the combo, but it resets into a nice tick that you can vary the timing on or if you’ve done it once, setup a bait.
- :bluu:
Yeah its being greedy…no doubt about it, but hey if I just do what everyone else says is the best without ever trying to improve upon it, I’ll never be better than them. It maybe the best what they say, but I should at least brainstorm on potential ways of bleeding more dmg out of every oppurtunity. As well its a situational thing…as I menioned, there are usually two times Gief gets a stun that I’ve seen, early game or early-late game. the second scenerio you have an ultra and its lights out or damn near even with dmg scaling. Its the first one that I’m interested in, getting the most damage off an early stun when meter is ‘lower’ and ultra isn’t had.
- :bluu:
Yeah, I still think that 95% of the time your opponent will jump if they recover from dizzy before you land the grab they expect. Throwing that jab, short, whatever will just give them that opportunity.
I think in theory its a nice idea, but in practice it will just give your opponent a chance to escape. I don’t think the increase in damage is worth the risk of landing nothing but a single light attack.
The question isn’t necessarily how to get the most damage, it’s how to maximize expected damage. How do you think your expected damage output does with ticks after dizzy? You potentially deal mildly more damage and risk some large percentage chance that you’ll deal only the tick’s worth of damage. Does that sound like a great option?
ha, yeah, it’s all about probability and expected values. A subject I enjoyed in college…
If I had the numbers for the damage dealt in each scenario, I could easily put together a table on how likely you would have to be in landing something in order for it to be worth it.
chuckles at the table concept XD
It could just be a factor of where my current skill set with Gief lies, but I’m accustom to living and dying by the tick. I poke I prod I combo when I get the oppurtuntiy (I’ve gone back to doin the BnB lately heh), but the whole mixup game is centered around tick oppurtunites, cross-up splash is auto-combo, knees (because I play online mostly and Hard trial 5 is retarded) - is tick setup…you go for a tick against any shoto and you can expect to catch some form of reversal, I suck as shotos/clones and I still reversal ticks with’em with ease, but I also feel thats part of Gief in general - work your way in, do as much dmg as possible thru heinous nasty abusful means and make them curse the day the USSR broke up. And that invovles ticks, I dont’ even know any other way to land throws…its either tick or counter.
shrug
why else would I work myself into position if I’m not going to go for my most damaging options? Even if that means using the threat of it as bait material…to land it.
- :bluu:
I agree, but when you have dizzy you don’t need to set anything up with the tick…just walk up and plant their face in the pavement. Why risk losing that opportunity for a slight increase in damage?
Ultradavid is right of course.
Anyone who would try to “reset” after a dizzy is mildly retarded.
Ultra, Super, and FA->360K all do good damage, and leave Gief in a very advantageous position for the wakeup game.
Even if those options did 1 damage, they would still all be good options.
This is not marvel. Gief can’t reset with a jab and air dash to the other side to cross up.
A “reset” in this situation is basically counting on someone to be asleep at the wheel. Not a tournament viable strategy.
A situation for not using ultra on a dizzy:
1)you are at FULL ULTRA (<10% life)
2) They are leading significantly, ( > 70% health)
3) you stun them with Gief’s Six hit combo on the last hit
Then you would probably just do Focus-> 360 K, then use ultra in the ensuing mixup for the win .
Even then that’s a big theoretical gamble.
The lowest amount of damage you could do to stun someone in that scenario is:
Headbutt (110)
Combo (287)
=397
Which is basically 40% life of Ryu.
ultra does lvl 1 120 or lvl 2 180 with that scaling.
The “Reset” argument assumes a positive mixup result, so I’ll assume a positive mixup here for ~230 damage
You’ve done basically 747 - 800 damage.
That’s 80% health of Ryu going the “safe route” with a unlikely scenario.
Resetting is dumb.