Zangief and Fightstick Gates

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
1

I’ve read alot about the different gates and people’s opinions of them, and square seems to get all the love, with the occasional person who plays multiple games saying Octo is ok. But rarely does anyone say anything specific about Zangief, and only anecdotally in forums (as opposed to more formally in tutorials) have I seen anyone take a stance and say “yes, this is better” as opposed to “well, it’s all just personal preference.”

Me, I grew up in American arcades. The TE fightstick is awesome and all, but I miss my click-y buttons, teardrop top and gateless joystick. The buttons and the balltop are less of an issue, because they’re easy enough to swap out, but I know whatever gate I get I’m going to have to put some time into learning, so I wanted some oppinions from Gief players.

I’m seriously considering a round gate, or if not that an octo. Should I pony up and learn the square gate, or could I make the round gate work?

2

It’s all about preference, man. Don’t let anyone tell you one type of gate is inherently better than other types.

I use square because I learned to play this game in the arcade in Japan, and that’s all you get to use.

3

When I first started with Gief square gates really bothered me, I think because I was exaggerating the 360 movements. Octagon was the only thing that felt right. I recently moved back to a square and it doesn’t bother me anymore, possibly because my stick movements are much tighter now.

I tried using a gateless Korean arcade stick the other day though and I could barely get an EX hand out.

4

I never ever used anything but American sticks till SFIV came out. The only place that had it obviously imported a Japanese Net City arcade cab, so that was all I had to play on for 6 months. Now I can’t go back to American. With that said, I can’t play a shoto on a Japanese stick. It truly is preference. (I main Gief obviously, and don’t really have a second char till Super)

5

Man, my stick just came in today and it’s killing me. I put in some time in training mode and felt decent so I went a couple rounds on Live and just got destroyed. (I did so many retarded things with one guy, he picked Dan the next round! Thankfully I stomped a mudhole in him)

I did discover that spending some time analyzing the input information in training mode is helpful. I know it has only been a day, but after putting in some time trying to get used to it and I still can’t consistently do a 720 (forget it under pressure) then I’m thinking square is not for me.

6

Just stick to whats comfortable.

7

It’s pretty much what everyone says…use whatever is more comfortable for you. I’ll chime in here b/c this thread reminded me of when I first got SF4.

I started off with an X-Arcade (one of the better quality revisions) + PS2/PS3 adapter (with no lag!) before I got my hands on one of the 2nd batch Madcatz TE sticks. I mained Gief from the start and pretty much grew up with the American-style Happ parts from the arcades - but I’ve also played with some SNK (square gate) joysticks when my friend had a Neo Geo. Since I got the TE, I haven’t looked back. So here’s the breakdown of just my experience.

Generally speaking (unless there’s tweaking), the American sticks and buttons are more springy and require more force to use. The stick itself is very tight and makes the Sanwa stick feel VERY loose by comparison. The American buttons require more force to press than the Sanwa and not as easy to “glide” over since they are concave. The gate itself, coming from no/circle to square, I immediately noticed that there’s less movement (almost feels limited) allotted when spinning the stick around. Also, with the bat top, you’ll notice that you have to hold it a bit higher than the ball top. With that, it means you have to make bigger circles for moves to come out.

When I switched over, fireballs and uppercuts became a flick of the wrist. Less movement made me less worried about my execution. With Gief in particular, I didn’t have to make a huge motion on the TE (a flick of the wrist) to get SPDs to come out. I’ve always been able to get standing SPDs easily on both sticks, but on the TE it felt a lot cleaner and I felt more confident just walking up to someone and pulling it, vs before when I felt I had to “prep” my wrist for the motion. As for the buttons, I didn’t miss the “click” after a bit. Yeah, it’s nice to “know” that you pressed something, but when linking or even plinking, I noticed I had to rely on making sure those buttons actually clicked before I could press something again (some people prefer that, not me though). Also, with the buttons is the ergonomic setup. On the TE, I can just rest my hand on the stick and my fingers are comfortable hitting the punches and kicks easily without shifting much/any. This helped me in that I didn’t have to move much to get the buttons needed - for as we all know or find out quickly, every split second counts.

Another thing that may have been covered in other stick comparo threads is hand/wrist fatigue. This is one of the reasons why I will never go back to the X-A/Happ parts. When SF4 first came out, I hopped right in to start learning it. Probably the same for many other people, I spent a number of hours straight on the game throughout the weekends following release. After a long session of spinning the “rough” X-A stick around and pressing the harder buttons, my wrists and fingers got really stiff. So much to the point I had a weird thumb/wrist injury thing going for a bit. When I broke it down, it was probably because of the non-ergonomic setup of the X-Arcade. Combine the stiff joystick and buttons, the non-centered stick/button placement (seriously, the X-A is just weird), and the non ergonomic button progression of a straight line, it will really do a number on you after a bit, especially if you’re tossing up 360/720 movements and mashing those 3 punch/kick buttons.

If you have any other questions/thoughts, let me know!

8

Thanks alot, xpulse. That’s exactly the feedback I was looking for.

I considered a Happ stick, but first I think I’m gonna try putting an octo gate on the stock stick. I more or less like the way the Sanwa stick feels, I just don’t like the gate. My only sort-of concern is that, despite hearing everyone say how resilient the Sanwa sticks are, after growing up on Happ I feel like I’m going to break the thing! And if I treated it like you had to treat sticks in the arcade as a kid, I probably would.

As for holding the stick, I have pretty big hands for a gamer. (I’m a bass player, and I play a six string bass, which is an instrument with a massive neck) I might actually benefit from a higher grip. At any rate that’s a comparatively easy mod to undo.

The buttons…man, I miss my tactile feedback on a button being pressed, though you make a great point on the problems of a concave button. Is there a high quality convex button that clicks?

And, as an aside, I have all intentions of eventually building a multicade cabinet, and now I’m thinking I’m going to have to build 2! One to recreate my childhood arcades, and another for hardcore gaming.

9

Damn, I had to add my input lol. Well, when i first started i was on pad but i also didn’t play gief lol. I started taking fighting games serious when hdr came out. My first stick was a hori ex 2 i loved that thing but that’s when i played with rog. I ended up dropping rog for gief in hdr, because of this amazing japanese player by the name of “Haru Tejyo or Jodim”. The guy was like a gief wrecking ball, seriously against all the top hdr players from the Us he ran threw them mostly, except like one or two guys.

I ended up meeting the guy and he taught me alot of things. The first thing he thought me, that for a gief player or any grappler character that has to do 360 or 720’s that the Seimitsu Ls 32-02 was the best that you can get. From what he said, it’s smooth and not to lose or not to tight perfect for 360’s. To me at first it was kind of loose, coming from the tightness of a hori ex 2 but as I and got use to it, i was pull off 360s like a lot a lot easier. So for my se fight stick i have sanwa buttons(which i personally think are too damn sensitive ) and a Seimitsu Ls 32-02.

I have tried the jlf… and think that it’s personally too soft for me. I also tried an octagonal gate and a round gate. I personally think the round gate is ok but not for me but i think the octagonal is not for grapplers and strictly for shotos and charge characters. For spd’s you need smooth movements, but the octagonal its rough, everytime you hit a corner you fucking feel it, i mean really feel it. So to answer your question SEIMITSU LS 32-2 ON A SQUARE GATE IS THE WAY TO GO BRO…

10

Awesome! That’s the first time anyone has suggested the Seimitsu stick to me - and I sort of had a feeling the best thing for Gief would not be the best thing for more common characters like shotos.

Now, is it specifically the 32-2 that you like? Because Lizard Lick has the 32, and the 32-1, but not the 32-2 - and also the 33, 40 and 56, but with not much dscription about what is different between each. Also, can I just drop it in a TE stick, or where do I go to find out more about installing that particular stick in specifically a TE?

Edit:
OH MY GOD, I just looked up some videos of Haru Tejyo or Jodim. That is sick.

11

Lizard lick use to have the Ls 32 02. You can get either the ls 32 01 0r 32 02 not that much difference if any at all but the ls 33,40 and 56 are a huge difference… check out this link

[media=youtube]OVNbMXzVn3U"[/media]

12

i forgot to put… the ls 32 series is a plug and play series for the se fightstick or the te stick.Just get either or but they will cost you around the same like 25 tto 30 bucks, so make sure you get the right one.I don’t know if lizard lick is still in back order but they ship really fast and if you need to change your order just call them up. I order some parts from japan and they got here pretty quick… i order my sanwa buttons straight from japan, which sf4 stick craze so booming

13

Huh - cool vid, so I know I don’t want a 33 - but not alot of info on the differences. The 32-01 is the current forerunner in my choices, especially since Lizard Lick carries the round gate, so I can try that out, too.

14

bro that fucking guy haru tejyo was fucking pass god-like on that game … dude the guy was like 828 wins and 28 loses and he told me that at least 10 of those were from disconnects … i was lik

[media=youtube]EnGQ7Eo3WHc"[/media]

[media=youtube]qtQhtEsMgvY&feature=related"[/media]

[media=youtube]sbevFwohVhQ&feature=related"[/media]

bro, that guy has to be the second best gief player alive in superturbo and in hdr… i personally think he’s the best in hdr… fuck guy is godly nuff said …

15

That’s just sick. That makes me wanna go train on HDR now. That honda match is insane - dude must know hitboxes like the back of his hand.

16

yeah, he’s a tournament level st player from japan.His real name is nogyo so you will find some orignal st videos of him up there but i have a another friend thats right there or almost right there where he’s at by the name of oxSNAKE EYEZxo…this guys is the best american gief player …period. and that honda vs gief match up is like a 9 to 1 in honda’s favor … iam glad that change on this installment lol

17

Glad I could help. :slight_smile:

I do have some experience with the Sanwa + Octogate as well. My brother put one of those on his TE so he could get a more “circular” feel from the Sanwa considering he also grew up on the Happ/Arcade scene. I hated playing on it. Like Final Round mentioned, you feel EVERY corner. I could pull out the moves just fine, but it’s quite the feel to get used to. At least on the square gate, the top corners are rounded, so you have the illusion of a circle. Not the octo…it’s straight click here, feel notch there.

The other thing I did forget but you pointed out is hand size. This is one of the reasons some people with bigger hands prefer the bat top for larger movement area, but both Seimitsu and Sanwa have other options. Check out Lizard Lick in the Joystick section and look for the Sanwa LB-45 Joystick Ball Top. The standard ball top is 35mm, these are 45mm. You need an adapter (which they sell), but I have a feeling an extra couple of quarters won’t break the bank. I don’t have any experience with these, but this might be your cup of tea. I like the ball top better because of the “wrist flick” factor versus the whole motion I have to do with the bat top. There was a thread about larger hands here:

http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=222073

Linked in there was some store with Seimitsu LB-49 45mm ball tops:

As for Sanwa v Seimitsu debate. I don’t have any experience with the Seimitsu sticks but I’m sure they compare nicely to the Sanwa all the same. I believe the one most people get for the TE/SE stick is the 32-01. Most tourney people use Sanwa-based sticks mind you. If you have disposable income and time to devout to both, more power to you. Remember, it’s about personal preference. Also on the button front, sorry, I don’t know/have any experience with convex “clicky” buttons.

18

I had a question since im knew to sticks and modding in general does a 8 way gate come with the 32-01 or do i have to but that too? and if so where do i get it i didnt see it on lizard licks website.

19

@xpulse - AH, so that’s how the octos work. Yea, that’s out. I had the same train of thought as your brother, thinking than an octo would be a middle ground between square and round. Now I’m thinking get a round gate and see if I like square or round better, and either a bat top or find some way to make the shaft longer.

Sanwa has shaft extenders, does Siemitsu? I’m not seeing it on Lizard Lick or Gremlin, but I could just be blind. Right now I’m thinking I’ll grab a 45mm top, a bat top, and see if I like either of those better than the stock top. It might be less headache to just pony up and learn one of those rather than trying to find height nirvana.

@Avj29 - I’m no expert (obviously I’m here looking for help) but a quick look at Lizard Lick and I can’t find the stock gate on the LS 32 series for sale as a separate part. They do have the round gate. And if I’m not badly mistaken, it’s going to be “8 way” no matter what you do, unless you put a dedicated 2 way gate on it, since the stick recognizes 8 directions. The gate just changes the way the restrictor feels.

20

Or maybe I’m going insane and Sanwa doesn’t make extenders. So I found this Laugh guy’s website, but I can’t find the shaft extenders. Do I need to contact him directly?