Gief did get buffed. He got a few unfair nerfs but he still got a few buffs. It’ll still be a bad match-up for yun either way.
Okay in what way does yun got oki off of a hard knockdown? Yes maybe a forward throw but he gets the best oki off of mp/hp lunge and mk/hk up kicks which are both soft knockdowns. DWU will NOT AFFECT YUN AT ALL. This argument can be made for yun, yang and rufus. If you look at yangs oki its all soft knockdown and resets just like yuns.
Also how can you ignore those incredibly high stun and great damage red focus combos.
In summary,
BNB damage buffed,
gains high damage high stun EX RFA combos from a neutral footsies situation (st.mp or cr.mk xx lp shoulder (EASY CONFIRM) EXRFA into w/e) and I’m talking 350-450 damage depending on how much meter and 600-700 stun,
buffed mp damage keeps command throw bnb’s the same except for ultra combos after command throw,
loses .1 command throw range isn’t bad you can reset after two lp’s on hit just can’t reset after cr.mp anymore. How is this a big deal?
yes he lost his hk upkick i frames but DWU will help him a bit from the vortex characters which makes this nerf not as bad. Plus its only if you don’t have meter.
I’ve seen Yun players complain about the 2 minor nerfs he got and they fail to realize his incredible potential in a game where footsies (footsies include divekicks btw) are going to dominate.
Top players make these statements for a reason lol… Bonchan isn’t an idiot. Also gief is NOT a bad matchup for yun in AE 2012 and will continue to be around 5-5 in ultra. Yun has great normals to deal with giefs. The problem is that most yuns just yolo divekick against him and gets command throwed and vortexed all day.
How can you SERIOUSLY say yun vs gief is not a bad matchup for yun? It’s 6-4 at best.
Also, the iframe nerf is not “minor”. Yuns wakeup game is already pretty bad, DWU will help a little against vortex but it won’t fix a terrible wakeup game. The “technical” sign for it shows up pretty fast too, so expect tons of DWU setups as it’s easy to spot. All it does is stop autopilot vortexes, knockdowns are still big. Wait and see how many characters will be able to abuse yuns pathetic wakeup game. Look at guile and vega in 2012, they’re in serious trouble if they get knocked down. I know they’re pretty poor examples but the same principle applies. Spending a bar of meter to be able to get out is not good.
Also I didn’t count red focus because it’s a universal buff to the cast, not just yun. Red focus does help yun and might be a better option over super but it also works AGAINST yun. He has poor health and stun to begin with, imagine how much fun people will have using red focus combos against him. Some of the higher damaging characters will be able to remove half of his health and basically stun him from one combo and a few hits. It’s not a complete buff at all, it works for and against.
The fact is other than BnB damage (which is only 10 extra points) yuns buffs only came from the system changes where as most other characters got these exact same system buffs ON TOP of character buffs. I’m not saying yun won’t be good, no way, but I don’t think he’ll make top 10 and if he does it will be only just. I can think of so many characters who have been given steroid injections in ultra.
People are really going off on how Yun doesn’t have good wakeup options when he does have fairly strong options. If you don’t believe he does, you should try rethinking your defensive game. The biggest nerf with HK upkick is that it will now cost meter to get out of pressure from certain characters like ibuki, sakura, etc…They can frame trap you into hard lock down pretty easily.
Zangief is a bad matchup for Yun from 2012 onwards, there is nothing that says otherwise.
Yun is still pretty strong in ultra, there really is no questioning that. With some of the nerfs his learning curve/experience to win ratio may be a bit more difficult but nothing incredibly different. He hasn’t become ultra Seth as far as I know. He has bad matches in ultra of course, but having a second character in your pocket is a useful skill. I’m originally a Sagat main so the Yun bad matchups in Ultra are moot. Figure out a way to make it work and don’t get caught up on the small things.
I get my hands on Ultra next week so I’ll test him out, but from the people I know that have tested. Nothing about his real gameplay has changed significantly.
It’s cool bros, kazunoko is sticking with him so he must be good still~
How does he handle pressure with his wakeup game?
I’m not challenging you with this question, I’m genuinely asking. I’m fairly new to him and I’m having a lot of trouble when being heavily pressured by most characters. Option selects beat backdashes and even now before the HK upkick nerf my upkicks seem to trade a lot so I tend to get exposed when they turn on the hyper offense. Feels so weird not having a 3frame dp… didn’t realise I relied on it that much until now, lol.
Julio did just fine against snake eyez in the beginning in top 16 at NCR (he ended up losing because snake eyez himself is godlike). Many commentators and players have said its an even match up (the commentators commentating that match actually say so). Yun has just as good if not better normals than gief does. The match becomes bad when you dive kick gief incorrectly. This same argument comes up with fei long players as well… its the same concept use your great normals instead of relying on the gimmicky aspect of the character (ie divekicks and rekkas etc.) both characters can win footsies with gief EASILY.
To help you out with handling pressure with yun:
HK upkicks trades a lot because of its awkward hitbox. If you are trying to reversal and they are standing go for lk upkicks. Crouching go for HK if they are UP CLOSE but EX upk should work always.
If they are frame trapping you just be very patient with your crouch techs and once their normals push you away stop teching and eventually if there is a large enough gap you can hit them or back off/backdash/upkicks. Try not to let them walk in at you during a block string.
Yun also has a great backdash so learn to backdash out of strings that aren’t true block strings. If you find they are option selecting your backdash on wake up then wait until you see a gap while they are frame trapping you and then backdash.
Basically if you are being pressured pay attention to which normals they are using and the patterns in which the player uses them. If you recognize a similar pattern than bop them with upkicks. Make sure you recognize safe jumps as well.
Did you just compare Yun vs Gief to fei vs gief?
Seriously though, Yun vs Gief isn’t that bad matchup wise… comparing a player like Snake Eyez however is a different story. Thats playing the player, not so much the character.
Fei can bully the hell out of gief however lol
Lol I wasn’t making a direct comparison. I was just saying fei longs also complain about the match up but you can beat him with his good normals. Same goes for yun. Play with your normals and not recklessly.
Please please please try out red focus combos and record ! 
Dominus check out some of the vids of japanese players playing in the arcades. A bunch of them have used yuns red focus combos in case you don’t want to wait for testing.
And that’s even more reason to not change the command grab in Genei Jin.By change i mean the 1 point of dmg.
Well the red focus combos have made using yuns super a lot more situational. A lot of situations would benefit from using the red focus combos instead (beginning of the round to rack up stun perhaps). I wouldn’t worry about the command grab in genei jin. Its not like third strike where activating it on block still resulted in huge damage most of the time. The GJ on block mixup is a lot less scary in SF4 and it usually doesn’t amount to much anyway.
If red focus combos are all they’re cracked up to be then why would anyone use their meter for anything else? Seems every character can get big damage and stun from red focus combos.
I know it’s early days yet but it sounds like red focus is going to make things a lot less unique. Why use your meter for super when red focus does more damage and stun? Why use it for ex moves when 3 meters can drastically turn the match in your favour from a basic hit confirm?
I dunno, i’ll wait until the game is out for the rest of us but I don’t like the idea of red focus at the moment.
Its just a good way to get big damage/stun from a neutral situation. Not every character has a good confirm. Say you are yun and buffering st.mp to lp shoulder and you whiff punish with the st.mp. You can confirm that its hitting and do EXRFA on reaction to the shoulder hit stun. Not every character has specials/situations like this.
I second Fei long and he does not have a good string that he can buffer in footsies and confirm EXRFA (rekkas are not FA cancellable) etc.
Some other characters I can see benefiting are ryu, ken (cr.mk xx fireball EXRFA perhaps?). Maybe Vega EXRFA his RCF? Its entirely situational and some characters have great neutral situations where they can use this.
Basically think any character that can play footsies buffer a special that doesn’t knock down on hit and confirm into EXRFA will benefit the most from this. That’s my opinion anyway and yun just happens to have this.
Got the links? I think I saw one video of it used but that Yun got floored by the 30 win streak Ibuki…
sorry I don’t =[ they are littered throughout the USF4 and USF4 rebalance request thread on the main SF4 forum page. You might be able to search it on youtube?
How do you guys deal with fireballs without ex shoulder? Are the other shoulders any good at punishing fireballs? I may be doing it wrong but I feel like hp shoulder is way too slow on startup and mp shoulder doesn’t reach very far at all. To be in range for a medium shoulder it feels you have to react extremely fast or perhaps anticipate instead of react.
I know palm gets rid of fireballs and divekicks help change your jump arc so getting around fireballs is not really a problem but I feel like the shoulders could be good for punishing fireballs and I’m maybe doing it wrong.
Also, unrelated to shoulders, can anyone give me a full list of the characters that heavy upkicks whiff on? I know they don’t work on ryu, evil ryu and ken. I’m talking about the characters that can avoid heavy upkicks after 4 hits, like cr.lp, cr.lp, st.lp, st.mp xx h upkicks.
I think hk upkicks whiff on ryu, evil, ken, adon, elf, sakura. I think theres one more…
Ex shoulder, divekicks, palms are all good for fireballs. Don’t forget about focus dashing them as well if you are up close.
what button do I use for regular kara throw? I noticed f.mk, st.mk and st.mp all add range but which is the best?