Yun Match-up Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
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The big thing for me, just by my experiences with my friend’s Honda, there are some things that stand out to me.

The first of which is the damage output vs each other. It’s actually even keel. Both of them get pretty good damage off of their jabs/shorts, both characters get half life on their combos including super. There is a contrast I found that actually even with that keeps the output even. Yun can get the damage in a lot more situations than Honda can, but because of Yun’s health compared to Honda’s health, Honda’s combos hurt Yun more than the other way around. Thus, I feel like it is even in that department.

There are also some Yun only things that he can’t get away with vs. Honda. For example, say you want a quick in, and you are looking for a good opening for a lunge punch. It’s best to do this with a regular lunge, but even then if you mistime the distance and have to FADC back out to plan your next approach, Honda can punish the back dash with a reversal EX Headbutt. Also, if he has meter, even though this is pretty obvious to aware Yun players, you can never EX lunge in if he is downbacking. He will at least EX headbutt you if not U1.

The significance of Honda’s hitbox as I said in the previous post and as you mentioned cause you to have to time your dives to hit deeper. When he has no meter it’s pretty okay because you have some room for error with the diving, and the worst you could take is a throw tech since he can’t force you to block a 3 framer like Boxer/Chun/Dictator for a bad dive. When he has meter though, EX Headbutt combined with Yun’s health makes your room for error pretty small. However, jumping back or neutral jumping can be used if you believe your dive is badly spaced to bait the EX Headbutt then you can punish accordingly.

Mid range wise, both of them have good buttons that annoy the other. I’m not as rehearsed as to what beats what, because my friend is a more offensive Honda and thus his style doesn’t focus on the mid range.

And just to really put a lot of emphasis on EX Headbutt and the siginificance of it in this matchup, I generally see Yun as an offensive character. Generally, vs. any offensive character, EX Headbutt is a nightmare. Most offensive characters tend to have lower health, and that one move takes a good bit of that health. Also, on a hit, pushes you to the other side of the screen, and on block, it leaves Honda with space to get some counters in to the approaches that Yun has. So as a Yun player, you want to make this move whiff because you can in most cases punish a whiffed EX Headbutt with a lunge punch at the very least.

I guess to sum it all up, the more correct reads Honda makes(neutral jump/jump back hp, EX headbutt, bait something into full combo), the more likely it is for him to just sit there due to the life lead. Generally, Honda wants space in this matchup because the more space Honda has, the more approaches Honda can deal with from Yun. The more Yun can force Honda into bad reads and such, then turning the opportunity into a one touch kill, he will have a better time. Alternatively, if Yun has the life lead, he can also choose to back off if he sees that Honda has meter, making Honda have to come to him. This is a good strategy if you have super, and Honda has any meter himself with Yun holding the lifelead. In this situation, Honda cannot jump at all, meaning he has to walk forward. If he as to walk forward, he loses his back charge, thus taking away headbutt. This can be countered if the Honda player has good awareness in the neutral game, but if you are forcing him to play footsies with you, you can get him to do a laggy normal to dive on, giving you an opportunity to end the round.

That’s just from my experience with playing the matchup. Generally, we need a few inputs and such to really discuss a character matchup I feel because not every player plays the same. This is why I generally ask for others’ opinions too before chiming in with mine. That way these things could be tested and such and we can combine different approaches to solve the best way to play the matchup. At least that’s how I think now ha.

242

Thank you, guys, that’s very informative.
My experience against Yun is not great, but from what I know, I would almost say the match is in Honda’s favour. Honestly, I was surprised when Tkd and Kaiser said the match is in Yun’s favour. From my little experience:

  • Yun’s diveckick is one of the weaker one in the game, with a terrible hitbox and height restriction. On the other hand, Honda has strong antiairs, so I don’t really see Yun being able to approach Honda from the air consistently.
  • On ground, Yun lose in footsies clean. Honda’s far hk outranges everything Yun has, and Honda’s cr jab beats all of Yun’s crouching normals.
  • Yun can only punish Mp and Hp Headbutts with meter (no meterless punish, and meter is important for Yun)
  • Honda can punish Yun’s regular lunge punch on block with U2, so once he has ultra, he takes away one of Yun’s main approaches.
  • None of Yun’s character specific combos work on Honda (granted neither Honda’s work). The dmg output is in Honda’s favour, and combined with the health difference…

Basically, I think Yun is an offensive type/ mixup character, who likes to get in and stay in. The problem I see is that Honda does really well against this type of character - he can prevent Yun from getting in, and even if he is in, Honda’s strong reversal game makes Yun’s mixups much more difficult than usual.

I also compare Yun to Rufus (I know they are different, but…) - Honda vs Rufus is usually considered even, but Rufus has a much stronger divekick than yun, that can give Honda trouble and help Rufus to open up Honda, and Rufus doesn’t bleed like Yun.

Well, these were at least my thoughts before coming here. What you guys said changed my perspective, good stuff.

243

Im not good at explaining but I will try.
I never uses lunge punch to get in on honda. Reason is I don’t see the need.
I only uses 4 ways to get close to honda.

  1. Dive, 2. Jump, 3. Dash, 4. Walk.
    I will try to explain which method during what situation but please note that a long list is coming ^^

Golden rule: never dive when honda is charging or stand neutral. Always use safe jump setups whenever he have meter.

Try to bait out these moves from honda
neutral jump hp, st hk, butt slam, head butt.

only move that guaranteed beat neutral jump is cr mp and I will usually f jump mk or walk/dash in after hit.
st hk can be punish by focus dash follow with bnb even starting from cr mp or baits out with neutral jump and whiff punish with dive(for this, I will jump when I feels the st hk is coming rather than keep jumping.)

Butt slam I believes most will know how to punish. Can simply focus dash or let go to crumpled. Things to take note is that most honda will do a ex headbutt after butt slam being blocked if they have meters or another butt slam if without meter. I will usually cr tech with OS lk upkick for the later situation.
Here comes the last which is headbutt,
Most honda will use it to build meter as long as they don’t travel it within your cr mp range they should be safe. BUT there’s a way to counter this, on reaction(at least mid screen) neutral jump and depends on which ver headbutt they uses and punish accordingly. Even if you punish late, it will still be safe as they will not have enough time to charge for another headbutt so it’s either they block or it landed.

I hope these helps since they works for me but I’m not sure if it will work for you as individual players might have individual styles so there might be a honda who’s able to counter all these.

Miss out the walk part… walking in slowly actually pressures honda to jump or st hk so its very useful. Try to keep out of cr lp range else the only thing you baits out is lp to thousand punch.

244

Forgotten that if you’re unable to do a safe jump after a knock down to baits out the ex headbutt. Can try going for cross up lk dive it will punish ex headbutt but you have to delay it else you will get hit if you did the early dive to catch wake up.
Can’t rmb if meaty cr mp works against ex headbutt or not.

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Actually other than the ground game, which again, my friend doesn’t really play so I’m not as rehearsed in that as I should be, and the U2 punish on spaced lunges, most of these are actually false.

Remember what I said in the first point in the long post. Yun and Honda do the same damage but by different boats. Pretty much, one connected dive kick leads to about the same damage that Honda gets from a cr. lk. From Super, both characters get 500+ damage in most cases. Yun can also us U1 as a damage engine, which the things that you would need to practice in this matchup to come out on top consistently as Yun, you can actually get U1 a good bit, but again you have to be very aware of those situations. Yun has a good bit of opportunities to get the damage though, where as Yun’s health make Honda’s hits hurt just the same. The reason that it only looks like the damage is in Honda’s favor is because no Yuns to my knowledge at this time maximize the damage they can get off of punishment situations just yet.

Yun can punish all non EX headbutts(I’ll go back and test, and edit) in the corner with lp lunge. Also, mp and hp headbutts can be punished with lp lunge, and hp headbutt can be punished with mp lunge. EX shoulder is actually not too good of a punish because it gives Honda space, which again, doesn’t help Yun if Honda has a life lead. You can get cute if you have 3 meters and just fadc the first hit of the EX shoulder and get a full combo too, but it’s something that is too risky especially if Honda has a EX headbutt stocked.

Yun has one character specific combo on a crouching Honda to my knowledge, which is cool since it gives an okay corner push and leaves you right next to them. That’s cr. lp, st. lp, cr. mp x 2, st. mp xx mp lunge. You don’t really think about doing that though because you really have to study up, and it’s just as easy to do the cr. lp, st. lp, cr. mp, far st. mp xx hk upkicks anyway for a bit better oki and then Honda has to block on wake up.

Also, rememeber that Honda wants to normally have space in this matchup. When he does, Yun wants to make him make a mistake so that he can take advantage and get back in. The more space he has, the better his anti airing will be and the more angles Yun does not have to approach with. However, once that space gets closed in, it can be rough times for Honda.

I also started to mess with the POS stuff with Yun this morning, so I will see if this has any bearing on the neutral game, I know it does strengthen the meaty lights/cr. mp game with Yun at this point, but in neutral I don’t know what it will do yet. So we will see how that affects things as well.

I posted some stuff in the safe jump thread. The only thing is that if you wanted to OS dp Honda, it’s usually better to do it when he doesn’t have meter. When he has meter. it becomes a RPS game because the dp’s you would want to use beat one thing and lose to another.

246

I also agree that Yun beats Honda fairly easy.
I forgot which event it was, but Kaz was playing Coungster(Best Honda in Europe) in a long set
and it was totally one sided for Kaz all the way.

Off topic: I personally think Zangief is easy as well LOL

247

I lab trained a few setups against gief. After bnb with mk upkick if you follow up with neutral jump mk gief cannot lariat as it will get hit instead

248

I don’t now how I feel about Gief/Yun. I feel like it’s it Gief’s favor, but it isn’t as bad as a lot of people make it out to be. The big thing that I always find myself seeing when I play the matchup is avoiding far st. mp. That one button really wrecks Yun in that match really as it puts Gief in good situations once he connects with one.

Everything else is just space control, whiff punishing really. I will say that if Gief has an oki situation on Yun, he is limited to splashing only, since I believe reversal lk upkick beats kneedrop clean.

249

Its certainly easier than yun vs thawk. That shits gonna be even worse in Ultra :frowning:

250

i cannot determine if kneedrop will be cross up or not, thus, can you really LK upkick on reaction ? does lk upkick beat all kind of kneedrop ?
anyway, after a crossup body splash, mindgame is 360, or lights 360, or lariat frame trap throw escape, or whatever he does, it will be more damaging than what yun can punish (except random lariat -> Ultra 1 lol)

But my question is, i’d like some advice about the adon matchup

while playing footsies :
-i cannot jump, got srk’ed
-i cannot go near, got st.HK 'ed, cannot focus either. I’m not good to predict those st.HK, thus i cannot jump it.
-i can try st.HK to beat his st.HK, but then, i’m heavily in risk for a direct jump attack, i can use it sparsely only.
-dive kick ? just mash st.LP or srk if you see even the beginning of a dive, dive kick is not really fast enough when jumping (neutral or not) out of srk range (adon’s srk travels far…)

so i’ve got trouble to get in.

there is the far out of range dive kick to get at st.MP range, to surprise the opponent with a st.MP when he is not ready to do a st.HK on reaction. Good, but not enough.

And then, there is the mindfuck adon’s fast walk throw, cross up or not MK, frame trap or throw or lights, faster than lighning walk, throw, hard to time throw escape, ad vitam eternam.

some hints :slight_smile: ? (i’m talking about playing against a really good adon, kinda 4600PP and playing in tournament^^ playijng offensive only when safe, after a throw for instance, or if i mash st.HK, and playing very conservatively, especially if he has life advantage, which, he will have most of the time )

lol, if USF4 is gonna nerf yun’s HK srk, i’d really like they’ll nerf adon’s st.HK too ^^ but it seems only yun will be nerfed :slight_smile:

got an idea, untested though.
adon’s st.HK on block is -3, exe is 9, thus if i block it, i’ve got 12frames to go at st.MP range +5 execution frame, so 7 frames for walking, according he does not mash MP or LP after…
meaning, if i manage to block a st.HK, walk and st.MP. But i fear the pushback is too far

251

idea tested : not working.
though i found out you can, at the right distance, FADC the tip of adon st.HK to get in. Only thing i can do against that, no other move is working except really far st.HK, but it’s meaningless, since adon will not st.HK that far

252

You can whiff punish Adons far.st roundhouse with cr.strong (ala, Bison st.roundhouse) Its not easy by any means and the distance is pretty strict but its something you can work on. Test your opponent more. If adons throw a st.roundhouse that whiffs, I’ll ex-lunge in until they start doing something about it. You actually have a lot of gap closers against Adon. cr.fierce beats Jag Kicks clean if you can react to them. You can safe jump adon’s uppercut after knockdowns with basic 4 frame safejumps. His dp’s other than ex really don’t carry much invincibility and you can beat them clean depending on distance. I don’t recommend focusing too much in this matchup in general. I don’t really feel this matchup is heavily in either characters favor. Test more on what you can punish from Adon and how to apply pressure.

Remember that Adon wants a stagnant target so walk around as much as possible and learn the distances he wants. Try to force positioning into your max st.jab range. This is where Yun has the advantage in normals and pressure against Adon. If all else fails, change your gameplan a bit and aim for pushing Adon into corners as quickly as possible instead of damage and setups. Hope this helps.

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hello everyone! I have been working on an android app that will give you a place to keep and share your matchup notes on your phone. It is a passion project for me and it would be awesome to see it helping people. If you have a chance, please check it out! Thanks =)

Ive attached a little video to show you how it works.

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Anyone have advice/tips for the thawk matchup? This is one I never bothered learning properly and may as well familiarise myself with it more with usf coming out.

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We need a new matchup thread for ultra because it’s a new update but mostly because this thread is totally dead.

Speaking of that, the T-hawk matchup is going to get a whole lot worse in ultra if t-hawk stays as he is in the Japanese arcade version.
I’m a pretty new yun player and t-hawk is pretty damn uncommon so I don’t know THAT much on the MU but I know you can punish condor dive on block with a mp lunge. That alone has won me more matches against t-hawk than I can remember. When they’re afraid to dive it removes the fear you get when a hawk jumps.

I assume it’s like any grappler and just like how hugo will be. Use your normals all day. Yun doesn’t have the best normals but he has some decent ones. Standing mk is a good poke as is st.mp. St.mp xx lp shoulder is a good way to test how they react to pressure and after the shoulder the pushback is enough to keep you out of the danger zone.

Also, as much as you want to, refrain from from divekicking! Bad divekicks against any character cost you precious health but bad divekicks against grappler can be catastrophic. The ONLY time i’d suggest divekicking a grappler is after they whiff something like a command throw or if you managed to knock them down and are going for a crossup. Do not use divekick as a way to get in, it will almost always end badly. A slightly misplaced divekick means not a true block string which in turn means eating a command throw, or worse… ultra.

I played a t-hawk last week and misplaced a divekick and I got hit by ultra 1. The damage was frigging insane.

256

Aye… when you start doing dive kicks against him, you start losing. Most often you’ll get SPD’d or Ultrad because of it.
You basically need to try and out footsie him, even though most of his footsies will beat yours lol

It’s a shitty matchup, but if you’re patient you can beat him. Just gotta poke well and punish correctly

257

You shouldn’t be getting SPD out of dive kick unless you’re doing bad dive kicks. Granted I still don’t think you should be using dive kick against Hawk too much anyway. Since he still has his DP and EX SPD.

Wouldn’t say the MU is “shitty” in 2012, it’s just hard because you have to be somewhat honest with your ground game compared to other match ups. If Hawk keeps his new condor spire though, well. Get that pocket Gat ready.

258

I can’t find anything on the Rufus matchup. It’s infuriating playing against someone who feels like a more simple, effective version of your own character.

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do both characters have dive kicks? Yes.
Therefore they are entirely identical except rufus is simpler and more effective.

Nopenopenopenopenopenopenopenopenopenopenope.

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^^ I read that as nope open open open open lol

The Rufus match up favours Yun quite heavily imo. Rufus being more simpler/effective, nope… more linear? yes.

You know how free Rufus is without meter? Make him spend that shit.