"Your fighting is predictable..." Yang Match-up Thread

I’m like the fucking oracle.

I’m not doing a match-up thread for AE (I did one for Vanilla and Super… fuck that), but I’d like to suggest my format used, as a good one.

Ignore the fact that I didn’t fill everything in lol.

Whomever is doing this, be sure to reserve a lot of posts. In my SSF4 thread, I reserved 12. That was a bit much, but I’d say at least get 7 or so.

I liked my ideas of having separate parts for A) strategy breakdown, B) tactics, and C) the opposition’s thoughts (obviously, I like the ideas, since they were mine…), so I’d like to suggest it for whomever does the thread for Yang.

Anyway, good luck to whichever one of you takes this on. It’s a LOT of work. Please don’t underestimate that, and don’t do it just because you want some e-fame on SRK.

EDIT- Here’s an example of how my thread went. I, personally, think it’s the best possible way to do one of these things.

M. Bison

Spoiler

Ultra Selection
Soulless**/**Breathless

General Strategy

I used to think this was a really bad match for Abel, early in Vanilla, but as time went on, this fight got easier and easier. I don’t think Abel runs away with this completely, but I think it’s in Abel’s favor. Funny thing is, if you ask most Abel players about this fight, they’ll tell you Bison wins, and if you ask most Bisons about this fight, they’ll tell you Abel wins.

Generally speaking, I’m not really afraid of Bison at any point in this fight. He controls space fairly well, sure, but he doesn’t do any damage when he’s trying to do that. From mid range, he outpokes Abel with S. MK and S. HK, but whatever. Just don’t get hit by that stuff. Also, S. HK can be whiff punished. He can’t just throw it out there like it’s nothing. You can look for spots to whiff punish with Step Kick or sweep, and start your offense from there.

Once you get Bison into a bad spot, he’s not a character that you can attack with normal linear Abel shit. You’re gonna have to mix it up, and it helps to have Bison-specific stuff to lean on. I’ll cover that in the Heartless section.

Generally speaking though, this is a fight that requires patient play until you can garner some momentum, then you want to try to end it quickly. When Bison has space, I think he dictates the pace of the fight pretty well, though he doesn’t do a ton a damage doing this. This just means that you should be patient during times when you don’t control the fight, and avoid taking huge risks. When you have real opportunities, take advantage of them. Even still, stick to safe pressure. Don’t get over-aggressive. Unless you just give damage away, it’s very hard for Bison to take it. Work on getting a life lead, and pushing Bison to the corner. Neither one of these objectives is very hard to do, IMO. Once he’s there, just keep him there. He doesn’t get out without taking significant risks. Cover them.

Defensively… I don’t know. Bison doesn’t have much to worry about. Just block, late tech his shitty grab set-ups. Um… yeah. Don’t force your way through his wall of pokes. It just doesn’t pay. Chill. EX CoD if you’re getting desperate, but otherwise, I just chill. When he’s doing all that Scissor pressure. Just chill. You have plenty of life. No need to take unnecessary risks, and eat s. RH or more Scissors. If you just HAVE to get out, EX CoD can be used here to some success, but I still advocate just blocking, unless you notice a pattern that you can exploit.

Overall, Bison controls this fight, and can create space so long as his back isn’t against the corner. I just don’t feel like he gets anything from that control. Abel wins this fight in a couple of bursts, IMO. Just be patient, and don’t force anything that shouldn’t be forced. Once you get in, do your damage.

Heartless

It’s pretty easy to apply pressure to Bison without taking any real risks.

When you knock Bison down, an easy option select to allow pressure, but avoid risk is to just jump in with MK, then OS a short roll. So let’s look at the option tree.

Block- Abel creates contact, can continue pressure
EX Psycho Crusher- Abel rolls through harmlessly, Bison escapes.
EX Scissor Kick- Abel rolls through harmlessly, Bison escapes.
EX Headstomp- Abel rolls through harmlessly, can punish on landing
EX Devil’s Reverse- Abel rolls through harmlessly, Bison escapes
Teleport Back- Abel rolls into Bison, can punish
Super- Abel can block, punish
Ultra 1- Abel can block, punish
Ultra 2- Abel can just jump out, punish
Backdash- Bison can punish the roll, but Bison pretty much has to know it’s coming. If he reads the OS, and starts doing this, you’ll have to switch up.

[media=youtube]2FIUz1GoiO0[/media]

There’s an online match, in which I use this OS on pretty much every knockdown. Obviously, that Bison wasn’t very good, but you can see the application of the OS in the match.

All in all, it’s a pretty good OS, in that it allows for pressure, while keeping Abel safe. A lot of Bison’s options are safe, but they burn meter, which is good. The less meter Bison has in this fight, the more free he is.

It can also be good to allow Bison to think stuff like wake-up EX Psycho Crusher is a good idea, throughout the fight, because if you block one of those later in the fight, that’s free Ultra (U1 or U2).

Another thing I do on Bison’s wake-up, is I’ll just sit right next to Bison waking up, and I’ll jump forward.

If he does EX PC, or EX Scissors, he’s out. If he does EX Headstomp or EX Devil’s Reverse, I hit Jump Fierce and dash under for free mix-up. If he teleports back, I can do Jump MK to hit him out of that.

As for other general pressure shit, the only thing you really have to fear from Bison is EX Psycho Crusher or EX Scissors. Most Bison’s opt for EX PC since they feel like it’s safer, and a lot of times, even if they get hit, they’re willing to trade damage to escape an unfavorable position, since PC will switch sides. OK whatever. Either one they go with still poses an issue for them. Both of those moves are slow as fuck. EX PC @ 14f, EX Scissors @ 13f.

Well, Abel low Jab is a 13f move from start to finish, which means that in pressure situations, you can always safely pressure with low Jab, and block any reversal. After a Step Kick, you’re at +1 on block, so with perfect timing, you can never be reversaled out of that move. If they go for EX Psycho Crusher, you block, and get free punish with Jab CoD. If they do EX Scissors, that’s free Step Kick on block.

Basically, it’s safe pressure, which you can follow up with whatever you feel like doing on block, or combo from it on hit. This also applies to wake-up pressure. Low jab is super safe as a meaty on Bison, so you can keep momentum.

Lastly, on Bison, if you’re still having trouble with Bison’s reversals, in wake-up, or air flip-out situations, just make sure to cross over/under him before he can do anything. On wake-up, roll through him so he loses his back charge, and the only thing you have to worry about now is his down-charge options, which pose no real threat to you, as they are mainly just escape moves. After an air-to-air reset, dash under Bison for the same effect.

Change of Direction

Shit I just seen the format and what needs to be done lol. I would try it but I’ve never done 1 before and don’t want to fuck shit up…

If you feel that way, then you probably shouldn’t do it.

I don’t want to do this myself, but I really don’t want this to be like all the other horrible match-up threads on SRK…

Yeah I see what you mean. If I did a Abel thread with that much detail another would be out the question, it def looks like work. On the other hand the yang forum sometimes is dead no1 really posts anything lol compared to other forums.

I would like to help out too, but I don’t think I’m qualified for that sort of task. I agree. This place is kind of dead.

The Hakan-matchup has been pretty frustrating to me, to say the least.

His :d::hk: seems to beat most everything on wakeup (also beats U1 if started before the flash).
His :qcf::hp: beats U1, U2, all versions of DP (depending on timing, but it’s so fast that DPing on reaction got beat most of the time).

Still going better than turtle dic but…yeah.

"

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/qcf.png

:hp:"? Isn’t That his slide? Why bother trying to DP on reaction? Just block it and punish with something like c.mk xx (any special). It’s really unsafe.

What do I do against Dhalsim? I feel like I have zero options except when use roll for 2 meters. He can easily anti-air Yangs divekick.

I know, but I like to DP/Ultra stuff on reaction, that’s how I found this out. :stuck_out_tongue:

Played Abel too and agree with the format being one of the best. Anything is a start, perhaps the op could copy paste the opponents matchup info against yang.

Yea when I mained Abel back in Super HAV’s matchup thread was so godlike for me. But for the most part it is thankless work for the time you put into it… I actually remember people getting mad about it in that thread lol.

Dhalsim has a semi deadzone where he needs to choose between 1 of 2 anti airs. If he chooses the wrogn one, the divekick wins and ur in. Experiment in training mode for the timing as distance for this, its really tough to explain.

U2 beats all walldives (whiffed or otherwise) if u delay it until hes about to hit the ground.

Yea my hardest MU’s right now are probably Chun, Bison, and Makoto (I really hate this dude in this game).

Chuns pokes/amazing normals are a hassle to get around (for me at least :(). I just feel like I can never get enough pressure ever started. I definately need to learn to OS for this matchup. I have never been really learned OS’s because I never really took the game anything more than casually but I want to start getting more serious.

Bison is sort of the same deal as Chun. Get poked out and scissored blah blah blah. Another need to learn dat OS matchup.

Makoto is like “im getting in and when I do im going to press what the fuck I want when the fuck I want”. Im pretty clueless on this matchup in general. So once I see Makoto picked on the select screen I basically admit defeat lol.

2 weird matchups that definately seem in Yangs favor but just kind of awkward for some reason are Cody and Dudley. Cody has really nice buttons and seems like some decent answers for Yangs pressure and Dudley after knockdown can be somewhat of a pain. I usually win these matchups but every once in a while I will get bitchslapped by one of them and just kind of not know what happened lol.

Also, I don’t see what the huge problem with T Hawk is. Then again I haven’t played any decent T Hawks ever. The only ones I have lost to are butter churners when lag fucks up a rekka or something (I get pretty salty when this happens). This matchup feels more or less even.

My advice for the makoto mu is treat it sorta like gief in a zoning perspective. you know she’s dangerous when she gets in but remember lk DK hits her so when youu get in close you can use that as a pressure tool with cr.mk x rekka as well.

People forget that OS throw beats every option she has on wakeup ( beats hayate,karakusa, fukiage and whatever that chop is called), so as long as u OS throw, she has to block on wakeup

That’s not correct. A safe jump will beat hayate (lol) and fukiage because neither of then have startup invincibility, so the safe jumpin will stuff them. Anything you OS will beat EX Oroshi, because it’s invulnerability runs out before the active frames are up. You can’t OS EX Karakusa, because the armor absorbed hit will prevent the OS to come out. Also, she can backdash out of a option select throw.

Best bet is to OS EX Rollkicks to cover all her options (except EX Karakusa, obviously).

i have big problems with these 2 particular characters, seth and sagat. i just don’t know how to contain seth at all plus his barrage of mixups is a big factor towards my annoyance. with sagat, i’m not sure what to do besides try to ex roll/ultra 2 through tiger shots and his buttons seem pretty good vs yang.

Tested. Safe jump mk OS EX rollkick beats everything besides EX Kara. I had EX DP hit EX Kara (absorbed a hit) then Yang would fly past Makoto where Makoto could punish the whiff (cr.lk xx lp hayate seemed to punish consistently).

I have the same issue with sagat. It’s hard to get in on him and when you do you have to respect his wake up is invincible on start up.