"Your fighting is predictable..." Yang Match-up Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
441

After nearly 4 hours of uploading my 51 seconds of footage, here’s my OS in training room.

Edit: More to add, this was an idea in mind before though I never tested it. Bison waits until during your blockstring mix-up to reversal if he feels that’s his get out of jail free card, if you have your neutral jump Fierce blocked you can establish spacing for a U2 punishable EX Psycho by doing a standing jab and holding back or a close forward and waiting.
Right now stand jab sounds the most enticing because you can then threaten mix-up with command grab(Beats turtling), blockstring(Beats crouch techs and can be completely safe), and bait and punish(Massive punish on reversals)

U2 will be 1F faster in Ultra right? That might open up more baiting options.

442

There are 4 Makoto players here. IMO Yang wins. She has difficulty escaping pressure and all of her wake up options (save for Focus back dash/BD/ultra) lose to command throw/throw. That and if you get a feel for when they like to do tk axe kicks, it’s easy to punish it

443

punish it with what. dp it?

my neutral approach is probably off for sure, but the problems im having are

-st.mp killing dive kicks and regular jump ins. i might need to check my ranges tho with diff jump normals
-neutral jumping or being in the air in general getting blown up by axe kick into ex hayate
-heavy ground buttons getting axe kicked
-focus back dash getting away from me when i do get in

i never feel like i knew what was happening when i do win, and i get blown up from time to time by much weaker players using mak

444

I always run U1 in that match so I punish with that or just any confirm into rekkas.

-Stand strong is a bitch, but you can whiff punish it. A good Makoto player doesn’t just throw it out for nothing. I tell everyone I play that once they see me neutral jump start mashing stuff to beat DK. So I just play a ground game until I can effectively get some dive kicks in there without being challenged. I think the key is to make them really start looking at the ground game and then a random DK to throw them off.
-I don’t like neutral jumping in general (except against Fei), so my only advice here would be to stay on the ground more often
-I don’t think I press any heavy buttons unless they are cornered/going for meaty st. RH after rekkas. Most Makoto players fall into a habit of when they’re gonna go for axe kick. Try and scope it out real quick and keep that in mind for when you want to threaten with focus
-not much you’re really gonna do about that until you corner them. Granted you could always make a really ballsy read and dp them for it. I tend to just keep pushing them in the corner or delaying my buttons to stuff the focus backdash

445

ok, i’ll try to approach the match that way. thanks

446

youtube.com/watch?v=IR_yEbsiBqY

Nice little “unblockable” setup vs oni. I have a bunch of other stuff that ill post in the coming weeks.

447

I got hit by a gen ultra setup in the corner and I can’t seem to reproduce it. It was an untechable knockdown (throw iirc) and either one or two dashes in the corner then u1.

At the time I considered blocking it crossup but decided for regular block instead and got hit. Is anyone familiar with the setup so I don’t get it by it again?

448

Yes…that’s a very risky Gen set up in the corner…but I believe It’s only a crossup(not unblockable) and you just block the other way.
Not sure how many characters it works on, but I know it works on Ken as well.

449

lol. i think its off back throw and sweep he can do that. just corner mash and try cross cut dp next time. his invul frames wear out as soon as he starts to move

450

so heres some oni tips because that character is everywhere online, and i was saddened by seeing rom lose to an online quality oni at scr

-use U1

-oni forward hp is -10 on block. punish with hp rekka from all but max range, if he does it from closer than your crmk range you can U1 punish

-theres a trick to blocking cross up slashes. at the moment of front side impact switch your block to cross up. think about seeing the impact and flipping your block there. the idea is that it takes longer for him to get thru you to hit a cross up slash. so if theres any delay he’s going to pass thru you and you’ll block the cross up.

there is the possibility that he did front side medium slash, but its a huge gamble for him because oni lingers in front of you long enough to get stuffed out of it by anythng. so he would have to make a read or fuck up to use it

using this you should never get hit by cross up slash as long as you are aware. he can use it raw on your wake up and you wouldnt be able to react, but its much more probable that he is going for a cross up slash in this situation, so you just have to see that he did a raw slash and react from there

-cross up slash is at least -8. you can punish this with U1

-the 2 faster stomps are at least -4. press your button using the dust on the ground as a visual cue. once it all goes away he can block. also i would advise against auto pilot stand techs and crouch techs while waking up. stomp eats those

-when you attack oni on wake up you have to account for mk stomp and dp. stomp will eat your usual yang walk back shimmey pressure. its got 1 frame invul, and is airborne on frame 2, and isnt throwable in any practical way. so anything but perfect timed meaties will air reset him. i have had it catch me trying to bait it with backdashes

the work around is to use more meaty close mk and meaty palm. they both allow hard punishes for him using it. however those of course expose you to DPs

-you can beat both those options by doing a delayed cr.lk throw tech. time it to hit late enough so you will block reversal dp. you will also be able to block reversal mk stomp and punish. you will also be able to tech wake up throw

this opens up wake up reversal timed jabs, and he will be able to back dash, but the goal is to deter him from reversals so you can go to your normal pressure options

451

found out you can use that block OS for other stuff too. apply that logic to Guy run overhead/slide, balrog overhead/low smash, the rufus messiah follow ups, and to a degree the dudley high low mix up

most of this stuff is reactable, but why react when you can just beat it automatically

in all of these cases the low hits faster than the overhead. so you want to time it so that you block low for long enough that the low would hit, then shift to a high block late

452

Are the stomps punishable for Yang with the push back? cr.lk always whiffs for me. I haven’t tried st.lk

453

if he does them on wake up or after an empty jump or something then yes.

oni players usually use the hk version if they just toss it out for spacing and thats safe on block anyway. the hk version has the largest hitbox. usually if he does mk or lk outside of point blank its more risky because he’ll be more likely to whiff

454

Yun’s divekicks also have height restriction…

455

Ohh, I was wondering if anyone saw that match at SCR.

Well, it wasn’t so much that I didn’t know what to do against oni - norcal caught the oni fever for a while because of wao, so I had been playing against 4-5 different people that used the character, and looked it up. The real issues with me getting embarrassed were:

  • I was coming off a 3-4 month blank of not playing AE
  • I did not realize benQ monitors were slightly different, and didn’t think of getting used to them [I played nuckledu in pools and he seemed confused why I was dropping so many combos [[which the next line explains]]]
  • I came into the tournament blitzed damn near out of my mind. I had been drinking a shitload the night before, and woke up pretty shitfaced. I didn’t think anything of it, since I haven’t been playing seriously for a while, but after I got embarrassed on stream I realized that I shouldn’t be drinking like that before matches [Ricky called me an idiot].

Well, I suppose the loss was a kind of wakeup call to play more seriously…

456

that oni player was so bad. i knew something had to be wrong.

457

So the wao effect is happening everywhere huh. Fucking new viper /seth.

458

It happens all the time. I know everybody remembers poonko beasting daigo at EVO that year then seeing an army of Seths online the next day. People need to stop D!@# riding and play the character they like. I already know there is going to be a jump in yang players when Ultra drops.

459

It’s only natural that people become intrigued when they see a character that was off their radar start beasting, back some years ago at Evo when I saw Vangief doing work I got excited and played Zangief for a bit. Jumping on who you think will be easy wins isn’t admirable, but don’t doubt that there are players that are inspired instead of lazy.
In terms of the character itself, Oni is crazy and I don’t like it.

460

I know this is old, but what Safe Jump works? Ive tried a couple and i have no luck =\