"You wanna get choked?!" Movelist/Combo Thread (Updated: AE changes)

[rainscape]

So i just went to try this out in training mode. Either my execution is way, the frame data is really wrong or there’s something wierd here.

The frame data says cr.lp is +4 and st.LK is 5 startup, but they do combo, so logically either st.LK is 4 startup or cr.LP must be +5 on hit. However, i cant get crLP>stMP to work even once, even with turbo’s/plinking, etc. If cr.LP was +5 on hit, this should be possible.

Also MP Oroshi, which is +4 on a crouching opponent (try it, stMP will not link, but cr.LP and cr.LK will), but i haven’t been able to get st.LK to combo at all, once agian, using plinking/turbo’s, etc just in case to see if i can mash to get it randomly, no dice.

Another odd thing is after a minute of trying it, i could do this link 100%, there’s no way this is less than a 1-frame link, and my execution isn’t nearly that good. Also when i link LK from crLP, i can never follow with the target combo, this doesn’t happen after linking from st.LP or st.MP.

My guess as to why: i think we may have stumbled on to an unlisted target combo

cr. jab is chain cancelable, so you’re probably chain canceling it into st. lk, which is why the st. lk xx st. mp target combo isn’t working.

[Tsurael]

cr. jab is chain cancelable, so you’re probably chain canceling it into st. lk, which is why the st. lk xx st. mp target combo isn’t working.

Hmmm.My understanding was that chained move only cancel with other chain moves, and st’LK is definatly not chainable(other than the target combo). Then again now that i think about it mashing st.LP doesn’t combo but cr.LPxx st.LP definatly chains. Im looking through this thread: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=218447 , and i dont see anthing that explains it.

Note that you chain any chainable move into any other chainable move, with some slight exceptions

[rainscape]

Hmmm.My understanding was that chained move only cancel with other chain moves, and st’LK is definatly not chainable(other than the target combo). Then again now that i think about it mashing st.LP doesn’t combo but cr.LPxx st.LP definatly chains. Im looking through this thread: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=218447 , and i dont see anthing that explains it.

It’s quite common. Boxer for instance can chain cancel into cr. short off his cr. jab (his cr. jab is chain cancelable, but hist cr. short is not) You can this example out quite easily in training mode. Start training mode with boxer, then hit the dummy with a crouching jab, and start mashing lp+lk in a crouching position. Watch how the game will chain cancel your crouching jab into a crouching short. If it were true that you could only chain cancel into other chainable moves, you’d be getting a rapid sequence of crouching jabs instead.

edit:
Anyway, you can try this test to check if it’s chain canceling or not in Makoto’s case: Hit with a cr. jab, then return the stick at neutral and immediately start mashing lp+lk. If you’re getting a standing lk, it’s chain canceling. If you’re getting a throw, it’s not.

[Theli]

s.lp would also be a chain cancel candidate in the latter situation. Though I’m sure a chained s.lk would come out as it has priority.

Chain-cancelling specifics is the reason why a hit confirm such as “c.lp XX s.lp, c.lk” works so easily. “c.lp XX s.lp, s.lp” would work exactly the same way.

[Twin_Rhapsody]

How many people here use the f+LK resets? It seems like this is where most of her “Guess Right Twice or Thrice” gameplay has gone. It was a part of it in 3S too, but not to the extent it might be here. There’s several options after you land it, and guessing right pays off decently.

Think the opponent will jump? Use a HP Fukiage (sometimes delay it slightly), you’ll cross-under them, and if they go airborne in any way, they’ll get hit, allowing the usual Fukiage combos.

Think they’ll try and jab/throw? Delayed Karakusa to grab them just as they land. A slightly better option is to do an IA HK Tsurugi, as it’s safe on block, deals great chip damage, and nets a fast but techable knockdown. MK Tsurugi works too, but if some characters crouch, you’ll fly over their head.

Think they’ll use a Reversal? Forward Dash under them to screw up their inputs, and if they still manage to use a reversal, punish accordingly.

Well, those are some options, there’s more than that but I’m just giving rough ideas. I know Makoto is much weaker than her 3S version, but I’m sticking with her.

[highlulu]

On another note, I SWEAR it feels like Makoto should be able to FFF as well!

she can on CH fp

[theDUKE]

One thing I noticed about the s. lk is that if you link into it from c. lp (you can, when frame data says you can) you** can** cancel it into ANYTHING. Glitch?

Damn it. I meant CANT. It was late. lol.

[Theli]

c.lp probably doesn’t link into s.lk on anything but meaty or counter-hit. You are likely chain-cancelling into the s.lk.

[TGS]

Some more combos found off of various levels of Hayates:

• Lvl 3 MP Hayate/Lvl 2 FP Hayate FADC, s.LP, s.MP, s.MP xx Hayate/EX Oroshi
• Lvl 3 MP Hayate/Lvl 2 FP Hayate FADC, c.LP, s.LP, s.MP xx Hayate/EX Oroshi
• Lvl 3 FP Hayate FADC, s.MP, s.MP xx Hayate/EX Oroshi
• Lvl 4 Hayate FADC, f.LK (Midscreen)
• Lvl 4 Hayate, f.LK (Corner)
• Lvl 4 Hayate, LP Fukiage, EX Hayate (Corner, character specific)
• Lvl 4 Hayate, LP Fukiage, EX Tsurugi (Corner, character specific)
• CH Lvl 2 LP Hayate/Lvl 1 MP Hayate FADC, s.LP, s.MP, s.MP xx Hayate/EX Oroshi
• CH Lvl 2 LP Hayate/Lvl 1 MP Hayate FADC, c.LP, s.LP, s.MP xx Hayate/EX Oroshi
• CH Lvl 3 LP Hayate/Lvl 2 MP Hayate/Lvl 1 FP Hayate FADC, s.MP, s.MP xx Hayate/EX Oroshi
• CH Lvl 3 LP Hayate/Lvl 2 MP Hayate/Lvl 1 FP Hayate FADC, s.FP xx Hayate/EX Oroshi
• CH Lvl 3 LP Hayate/Lvl 2 MP Hayate/Lvl 1 FP Hayate FADC, s.FP xx Hayate Cancel, s.MP xx Hayate/EX Oroshi

[theDUKE]

Character specific combos using hp, HC, s. mp, s. mp. I dont really feel like testin the whole cast lol. But it worked on Rog and NOT Ryu.

Here are the combos and values:
-hp, HC, s. mp, s. mp, EX Oroshi 272/520
-hp, HC, s. mp, s. mp, EX Hayate, lp Fukiage, EX Tsurugi 398/691 (corner only and character specific…refer to izanagi’s chart)
-hp, HC, s. mp, s. mp, EX Hayate, lp Hayate 312/557 (corner only and character specific…refer to izanagi’s chart)
-hp, HC, s. mp, s. mp, lp SCH 262/475
-hp, HC, s. mp, s. mp, mp Hayate 258/464
-hp, HC, s. mp, s. mp, s. lk xx lp Hayate 270/487
-hp, HC, s. mp, s. mp, s. lk xx lp SCH 279/496

[tylerzd]

TGS, could you explain the process by which you identify the various hayate charge levels?

OP will be updated shortly.

edit— done. Thanks TGS and theDUKE

In the future: if you have character specific combos to report, make sure to test them as comprehensively as you can before reporting. I do not have the time nor motivation to go through each and every one of these things on the entire cast of 35.

[TGS]

TGS, could you explain the process by which you identify the various hayate charge levels?

OP will be updated shortly.

Level 1 = No charge.
Level 2 = Slight charge up to about 1/2 second.
Level 3 = 1/2 to 1 second charge.
Level 4 = Over 1 second to max charge.

Note: Charge times are approximations.

Wish I could find the concrete data on it (i.e. charge time by frames), but you can identify it by the increasing amount of damage, stun, and hitstun it does in training mode up to Level 4 (obviously knocks down).

[tylerzd]

Level 1 = No charge.
Level 2 = Slight charge up to about 1/2 second.
Level 3 = 1/2 to 1 second charge.
Level 4 = Over 1 second to max charge.

Note: Charge times are approximations.

Wish I could find the concrete data on it (i.e. charge time by frames), but you can identify it by the increasing amount of damage, stun, and hitstun it does in training mode up to Level 4 (obviously knocks down).

Thanks. I’ll paste that into the listing.

[TGS]

Also, Level 4 Hayate = EX Hayate, so the character specific list for it is the same as the one used for EX Hayate.

[tylerzd]

Gotcha. Thanks.

[theDUKE]

@Tylerzd: I don’t really have the desire to test the entire cast as well lol. Its something I found out, so I felt I should share it with the community. That way its out there so maybe someone that wants to will test it on the rest of the cast…

[Lost_Fragment]

Focus-I didn’t used focus too much for AA in vanilla (then agian, i played seth and sim mostly) but im finding it pretty useful in Super. If the lvl2 focus come out a bit late and gets blocked you’re at +5 after FADC and can get a karakusa mixup (lk is 6 or 7 frames)
Of course if you don’t feel like dealing with their jumpin, dashing under is a great escape tool.

Using focus as AA isn’t a good habit to get into. Lots of characters can punish that. Hard.

[theDUKE]

FFS (Fierce Feint Strong)

FFS, s. mp Character specifics

Works ON
Abel
Adon
Akuma
Blanka
Boxer
Cammy
Chun Li
Claw
Cody
Dee Jay
Dhalsim
Dictator
Dudley
El Fuerte
Fei Long
Gen
Gief
Gouken
Guile
Guy
Honda
Juri
Makoto
Rose
Rufus
Sagat
T Hawk

Doesnt work on
Dan
Hakan
Ibuki
Ken
Ryu
Sakura
Seth
Viper

*Disregard yesterdays post…I guess I found the desire to test these out. Feel free to try the Characters that it doesnt work on, just in case.

[Sprint]

http://www.shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Makoto_(SSFIV)

Read the wiki every now and again, damnit. Charge times have been on there for over a week.

We’re not updating that stuff for fun!
Well… okay… I am updating it for fun. I won’t speak for Gilley, though.

Also Lv4-5 Hayate != EX Hayate. EX launches higher.

[theDUKE]

I know Mak is about gettin that stun. But here are a few numbers. More stunt/flashy combos than anything.

s. mp, s. lp, s. mp does 138/230 (it may be character specific, but Im not gonna test them all right now)
s. mp, s. lp, s. mp, EX Oroshi 222/370
s. mp, s. lp, s. mp, lp SCH 212/325
s. mp, s. lp, s. mp, mp Hayate 208/314