I can’t speak for everyone else, but I don’t do hayate cancel combos because just doing s.hp -> hayate and such is guaranteed damage, whereas there’s a bigger margin for error with hayate cancel combos and little gain in return.
but if you can master it to almost 100% execution, you do more damage and stun than someone who doesn’t.
for example, im messing around in training mode and s.HP -> EX oroshi does 200 damage and 400 stun, where s.HP - hayate cancel - s.MP -> EX oroshi does 236 dmg 460 stun.
the difference between s.HP -> fierce Hayate and s.HP - Hcancel - s.MP -> medium Hayate is actually 30 damage 76 stun
that stun could mean the difference between win and lose.
Even pros tend to use easier combos over combos that are more difficult but have higher damage/stun.
Cammy for example. tk cs -> s.hp -> hk arrow doesn’t do as much damage and stun as tk cs -> c.hp -> c.mk -> hk arrow, but the latter combo has a 2-frame link. If you watch videos of Sanford’s Cammy, he almost always uses that first combo when he lands a tk cs.
combo hayate counterhit:
hayate LP lvl 2 (counterhit), MP hayate EX or LK hayate LP (easier link but unsafe if you miss it)
works with hayate HP counter hit as well (lvl 1 or more)
Lost Fragment: IMO, it just depends on the player. I always use Viper players as an example. They can use hp > ex seismointo whatever but capable Viper players go for FFF when availabe.
I don’t know if it’s been mentioned before, but this is a nice hit confirm for focus attack.
FA2/3 > backdash > MK tsurugi > EX Hayate.
This is kinda the same deal with chun’s backdash stomp combo. When you confirmed that the FA2/3 hit during your backdash, just hold up/forward and do the MK tsurugi to EX Hayate. I just tested it on hakan, but probably works on the whole cast.
Yes you might be ballsy if you know the matchup, know the other player, have a life lead, start of match, etc. If you’re down a round or a match or even a good bit of life and you have any sense you’ll do things that are absolutely 100% assured. Taking unnecessary risks against an equal player is how you lose.
Hp hayate gives you the +2 on hit and perfect mix up spacing for follow up pressure is another reason.
its not a risk if you have the execution down 100%.
Can someone explain to me how does the ex-hayate link to lp-hayate?
This linking is being very random to me atm. Yestoday I think I got it but today when I tried it, it doesnt link at all…
Do I have to delay the lp-hayate or input it asap?
^ you have to press LP as soon as she finish yelling “CHESTOOO !!” (same thing for fukiage LP)
There are many variables can be taken into account depending on who you ask (whos in the lead, how close to stunning your opposition you are, mind games, ect…). Different opinions all around and this just happens to be mine. Bottom line, whether you have sense or not…get your execution on point and you wont have to call it a risk. You could call it free.
I was gonna respond to this and say that FFF is different because it adds way more stun/dmg to Viper’s standard B&Bs, but after double checking, it doesn’t add that much more than Mak’s hp into hayate feint into mp does.
Plus, after thinking about it more, using hp into hayate feint into st.mp sets up mindgames and stuff for karasuka resets.
So, I concede.
Right on. I was just about to edit my post to mention that too. Cant wait to see how far (SSF4) Mak tactics progress over time!
What are her confirmed/reliable anti airs?
On another note, I SWEAR it feels like Makoto should be able to FFF as well!
st.MP- beats damn near everything if you throw it out early enough, if not it will trade a little more often than i would like but it rarely loses outright.
cr.MK-a lot like juri’s cr.MP, shrinks her below the level of her foot. Beats lots of stuff out clean and works really well agianst people trying to cross you up without a knockdown. Not good for jumpin’s like boxer j.HK where the hitbox is angled downward.
Fukiage- Hard to get used to and time, but 200ish+ dmg on juggle hit or trade, also good for people trying to cross u up without knockdown.
Ultra1- kinda wierd timing to get them to land in it but works pretty well, big payoff obviously.
st.MK- tags them at just lower than the peak of their jump if jumping foward. Good if you catch them high up but i personally like st.mp/cr.mk better.
crHK- slower, harder hitting st.MK more or less. i wouldn’t reccomend it.
Focus-I didn’t used focus too much for AA in vanilla (then agian, i played seth and sim mostly) but im finding it pretty useful in Super. If the lvl2 focus come out a bit late and gets blocked you’re at +5 after FADC and can get a karakusa mixup (lk is 6 or 7 frames)
Of course if you don’t feel like dealing with their jumpin, dashing under is a great escape tool.
Havent seen this mentioned on the last few pages so I figured I’d throw it out there for the masses.
s. lk has more range than all of her other light attacks, and does more damage as well (same stun). Also, I could be wrong, but it feels like you get a bit more hit stun on it for easier SCHs.
**Recommended BnB: **
-s. lp, s. lp, s. lk xx lp Hayate 155/224
I noticed that the s. lp into s. lk isnt in the notable links section. I’d say they’ll prove to be really useful. I actually went back while typing this post and realized it was in that “Basic Makoto Guide” video.
Here are a few combos and values using s. lk.
SCH = Short Charge Hayate
-s. lp, s. lp, s. lk xx lp SCH 166/235 (BnB w/ SCH)
-s. lp x3, s. lk~mk 142/235
-s. mp, s. lk xx hayate 172/246
-s. mp, s. lk xx lp SCH 184/258
-mp Oroshi, s. lk xx lp Hayate 212/346
-mp Oroshi, s. lk xx lp SCH 224/358
One thing I noticed about the s. lk is that if you link into it from c. lp (you can, when frame data says you cant) you cant cancel it into ANYTHING. Glitch?
Hopefully more to come on that later…
Edit: its a tighter link than c. lk, but you can land s. lk after mp Oroshi from further away.
Edit2: Mix up potential?..You can get Tsurugi to hit front side and land on the back side against some characters. I got it to work on Hakan and not Makoto. Those were the only ones I tried it on. Both in the corner and mid screen, though mid screen is a little tougher. Its easier to find the timing off of back throw mid screen. Corner is cake for the most part. You can set it up w/ a sweep, EX Hayate (tech fall), and Oroshi as well. If you get a UTK (untechable knockdown) dash to make sure theyre all the way in the corner.
s mp, s mp, s lk, lp hayate is a good one too. dont know the values though, and if theyre blocking you can end it with s mk instead of the hayate so that theyre still in block string and you can add to the mix up.
EDIT: DISREGARD
So i just went to try this out in training mode. Either my execution is way, the frame data is really wrong or there’s something wierd here.
The frame data says cr.lp is +4 and st.LK is 5 startup, but they do combo, so logically either st.LK is 4 startup or cr.LP must be +5 on hit. However, i cant get crLP>stMP to work even once, even with turbo’s/plinking, etc. If cr.LP was +5 on hit, this should be possible.
Also MP Oroshi, which is +4 on a crouching opponent (try it, stMP will not link, but cr.LP and cr.LK will), but i haven’t been able to get st.LK to combo at all, once agian, using plinking/turbo’s, etc just in case to see if i can mash to get it randomly, no dice.
Another odd thing is after a minute of trying it, i could do this link 100%, there’s no way this is less than a 1-frame link, and my execution isn’t nearly that good. Also when i link LK from crLP, i can never follow with the target combo, this doesn’t happen after linking from st.LP or st.MP.
My guess as to why: i think we may have stumbled on to an unlisted target combo