Lowering his damage and giving him stuff he doesn’t need won’t make the 9-1 and 8-2 match-ups easier.
It will make a lot of his 6-4 match-ups 5-5 or worse.
What only thing he needs is something to make the 9-1, 8-2 more manageable.
Hugo doesn’t have a single 9-1 matchup.
The main reason as I see it for Hugo having 8-2’s is where his tools that make matchups easier elsewhere just aren’t effective against characters like Gouken, Juri or Rose.
The single change where lariats strike from further out would by itself go a long way in making those matchups a little more bearable. The simple fact that Juri now actually has to be concerned about a reaction EX.Lariat now that it actually has a chance to hit her fireball release recovery from anything more than point blank would most likely shift the matchup. It’s never going to be a 6-4 matchup simply by virtue of the character archetypes, but that’s not my goal. My goal is making Hugo’s options actually work where they are supposed to, giving him some relief and rewarding him when by all accounts he made the right read. After all, one knockdown should be all you need.
Gouken and Juri are as close as 9-1 match-ups go. (And imo Poison as well but I can see how people can disagree.) And that’s coming from someone who thinks Hugo has more good than bad match-ups.
That said, Hugo doesn’t need to win these match-ups at all but they should at least feel doable and right now they’re not.
You can’t win because you played good, you won because you’re opponent screwed up.
Letting EX lariat hit from further out will change the hard match-ups. However it will probably inpact his 4-6 match-ups more making it way to easy to score a knockdown against Ryu for example.
It’s a huge problem in my opinion, if you give him the tools to make Gouken and Juri a potentially 3-7 match-up i’m genuinely afraid what will happen to the rest of the match-ups.
Also Soggytoast, chainable jabs that do 50 isn’t that much. Think about what other characters can get out of a 5 frame move, It’s more than 175 damage. And they can probably FADC or RF it as well leading into Ultra.
Things I would change are:
st.mk Add vacuum property to the first hit or let the second hit, hit from further out so it connects when you hit your opponent with a spaced st.mk.
cr.hp 9 frames so hugo has a AA option against 2 hitting jump-ins.
cr.hk Airborne on frame 1 so hugo isn’t throwbait on wake-up. (You can just throw him out of every move on his wake-up including EX spd and U1.)
f+HP Increased vertical hitbox upward so you can actually hit jumping people with it.
Make armour-canceling into clap possible. (Completely useless but weird that you can’t do it)
Decrease damage on EXMS to 200.
Alter Super so it’s a blockstring and people can’t Red focus the third hit.
Able to land on all regular horizonal fireballs.
Things I want but are too good:
Give all versions of backbreaker throw-invincibility when active in the air so you can’t get thrown out of it with a regular throw.
f+HP on counter hit gives a wall bounce.
l.clap start-up 13 frames.
Double meter-gain if you clap a projectile.
EX.clap start-up 15. adv on block 13. adv on hit 14.
EX SPD 2 frames start-up.
U1 throw invincible.
If you absorb something with EX lariat and EX MS Hugo doesn’t slow down and runs through it just as fast as he would normally run.
EX MS throw invincible.
Making EX lariat better is probably an easy fix to a lot of his problems, but I think it will make him too good in the process. Right now he’s doing extremely high damage but it’s hard to set-up, it will change into doing high damage and somewhat easy to set-up.
Which is why I wanted to reduce his damage slightly all around too.
I’ll requote and rephrase myself because you missed the point.
Reducing his damage output by 60 damage per combo means nothing if he can get in 10 times more easily.
Uhh… I’m not sure how much better you’re imagining I’m suggesting EX Lariat to be.
Hugo is a fun character he just needs small adjustments to be a great character with a weakness getting zone or his size .
His anti-airs are not bad but are all slow+huge risk vs the reward you get if they land/trade.
**-Normal backbreakers or BB for short don’t do damage on trades which limits the use of them outside of combos.I suggest less hurtboxes on BB or more range on the grab for less trades.
**
-ST.HP needs to active armor faster or buff Cr.HP to fight 2 hit jumping attacks when hugo has no meter.Would make the chun-li match easier.
Hugo’s normals are unique due the range and damage they do.Yet the speed&recover makes footsies a bit hard to work vs good poke characters like vega and chun.
-Hugo can chain cancel his jabs but, he can’t link them which isn’t a hugo problem. (-2) on block means its suspect to reversal supers and if he doesn’t jab them out of range grabs also.Make it (-1/0) on block
-St.MP is -2 on block huge range,good damage.Problem with this move the hit box is misleading I seen low profiles go under this with hand in the over the character.A hitbox adjustment it all it needs.
Hugo’s special moves all slow and can be reacted to it was on purpose to allow you get a CH clap/SPD/MS.
**Ultra throw-7 frame start-up on ultra needs to change to 3-5 frames.the damage you can get is great but the mix-up options are limited.Making his ex version be grab invincible would help him greatly
**
-Meat Squasher is a great move mainly the light&EX version.The move requires more precise inputs with no spd shortcuts,needs the shortcut to lessen a chance of BB coming out.EX MS should be same speed as light MS to give off a surprise attack feel.
-Claps need a bit less start-up but not lp clap.LP clap just needs less recovery + move hugo closer,making U1 a lot better.Give Ex clap 2 hit armor sounds broken but it could be his best tool vs juri,gouken,rose/zoning cost a meter.This be counter by reversals and balance his super bad match-ups.****
-Monster Lariat needs to be faster like a true block from his lights fast also the ability to FADC.Armor til hit/attack is active
-EX SPD needs to be grab invincible
Hugo’s movement speed…has to be the same hugo needs to be weak at somethings.
-Making his forward dash slightly faster would back closing the gap easier in a zangief green hand fashion. His back dash just buff plz.
-His size and pre jump frames are bad vs fireball characters. **Lowering his jump hurtboxes **should help or add a blanka like jump speed would make him perfect.
-**Give me a regular get up speed after he gets dizzy. **
^^^This keeps all his weak points and strengths.I think hugo could add more stun in his combos but he does so much damage that it would be pointless.Gaining more meter if he claps a fireball would be awesome to see.
I don’t think you get how good their fireball recovery is.
Actually looked it up for you, Juri’s fireball recovers in 22 frames. Gouken’s in 24. (Guile l.fb and poison’s H.fb is 20)
From how far away should you be able to catch Juri’s fireball?
l.lariat hits from around 1 big block. So that’s could potentially be your further out EX reach.
Let’s say you can hit Juri from 1.5 big block.
Hugo’s EX lariat runs 16 frames per big block.
Which means that match-ups like Akuma(30), ryu(32), Ken(33). Change drastically.
He can then EX lariat them from 2.25 blocks away. Which is a distance you’re constantly stand at in this match-up at the moment. Hugo will be able to score a knockdown way to easy and will completely cancel out any zoning these characters can do.
You can safe-jump after BB or fake safe-jump into spd. His mix-up options after UT are pretty solid.
I don’t generally like to talk in the Hugo threads, because it’s like walking on a glass bridge. Who cares, if people are still complaining about having to play close to perfectly in a match…why not go get some advise from Dalsim players?
EDIT: Also Hugo should stay his retarded self. He’s perfect just the way he lives.
True, the options after UT throw lands are good. I meant the gap between the normals on block into UT and his overhead(knee) is huge.
How do you feel about ex clap gaining 2hit armor?Do you think if he got at least this buff alone he could fight fireball characters evenly?
It will be broken imo. It will render EX.lariat useless and make his footsie game an absolute nightmare.
Right now his footsie game is based around getting st.lk, cr.lk and cr.lp to hit on counter-hit and getting that damage with ex.clap or l.clap and knockdown. Or whiff punishing with cr.lk into lariat. This will change into, just do ex clap. +12 on block and you’re in. Or ex clap hits and you get the knockdown.
I can’t think of too many ways for him to even out his bad match-ups against fireball characters.Maybe 1 hit of armor and +4 or +5 on block (same hit stun) could be a balanced buff to ask for.EX lariat would still have more armor and uses over EX clap.Hugo would just gain another get -in-move/gap closer that would encourage players to stay in an ideal range with pressure.Thanks for replying as I need to brainstorm what hugo really needs if capcom ask the community for ideas on buffs again.
Here’s a really random idea to buff Hugo.
Give Hugo a special taunt that grants him temporary armor status. Think Hakan’s oil shower, or Sagat’s angry charge – a special move that buffs specific properties of your character. And in Hugo’s case, I’m suggesting the big lug should gain 1 hit of armor as long as he’s not jumping. He’d be like Juggernaut in the Marvel games. If you hit him, he’ll slow down from the hitstop but won’t go into hitstun – he’ll just carry on with whatever he was doing (moving, attacking, recovering, etc).
I’m thinking to not make it too obnoxious, the effect should only last for a limited number of absorbs, or a fixed duration of time. I also think its effects shouldn’t stack (ie; you can’t do the move 4 times to get 4 hits of armor). And of course, armor breaking moves will still break the armor. It might also need to be balanced by costing EX meter.
What this effectively does is that it makes Hugo better at close range as the armor will cover the horrible startup on his normals. And makes anti-airing with his slower normals more viable since he can absorb the jump-in with the armor.
Visually, I think it’ll look kinda good too. Like how big wrestlers no-sell their opponent’s moves.
thoughts?
It would be sad to see him go but capcom just needs to scrap him altogether. As they clearly have no idea how to balance him
I don’t have much hope for there being any further balances to the game but it’s fun to imagine. Here’s a ‘realistic’ set of changes:
Health and stun 1100 -> 1150. Hugo is by far the biggest character in the game as well as far less mobile than the other two characters that share his toughness bracket. I think having 50 more health than someone like T. Hawk is very very fair.
LK.Backbreaker 5 frames upper body invulnerability. It trades too often for 0 damage. In matchups where Hugo can’t rely on st.HP this is a pretty big deal. It’s supposed to be an anti air anyway and this change doesn’t make it any better as an escape on the ground.
EX.Backbreaker damage 160 ->180. This needs to do more damage. The risk/reward is just completely off right now.
MK/HK.Lariat advantage on block -11 -> +0. Honestly if either of these moves come out for whatever reason there is no justification for them being punishable on block. If you sit there and let Hugo lumber toward you long enough that you end up blocking either of these moves, then you need to put the controller down and concede.