Yes.. there is actually a noob out there that still has the balls to play

Newbie Saikyo Dojo
1

First post, so allow me to introduce myself, and say thank you in advance for all the (non-flaming) responses I may receive.

Short(ish) bio on me: Im no newb to video games in general, fighters included. I play games like Demons Souls, Ninja Gaiden, FF, etc… which are all relatively intensely strategic games and i play with the goal and mindset of being a top tier player (do fairly well, but im no gaming god…) and even in MK i can dominate fairly easily online. But SF is different… back when SF4 first came out I was able to take the ranked matches by storm and just barely came short many occasions of winning my “10 in a row” for ranked matches. I stopped playing after a while out of lost interest and lacking the perception for the true challenge the game presents, and recently was dragged into SF again by a close gaming buddy competing in SF:third strike online… figured if i was going to do SF again id do it right, with the modern graphics to keep me satiated.

Ive been playing about a week and a half now, even went out and got the tournament edition madcatz fight stick (god… im still wondering if i should regret the decision to blow $150 on a madcatz product… what the fuck was Capcom thinking?) and even now, despite having re learned all the basic moves and a few basic combos I cant win a ranked match to save my life… period… I have won a few over the course of dozens, maybe even hundreds of matches ive played, but the rape i endure online is just obscene… im a competitive gamer and i dont give up on a challenge easily so I am determined to at least become “mediocre” at the game so I can enjoy it, and at least hold a 50/50 ratio of wins if I can manage it.

I have spent the last week reading and googling and watching youtube videos and researching all I can between this forum and other resources online and my eyes are burning… Im hoping someone can point me in the right direction for some basic/advanced information that will help me make the most of my fight stick, as well as learning how to overcome this ridiculous learning curve on making the most of my gaming ability. I dont recall using focus attacks much if at all back when SF4 first came out, much less using them to cancel out of moves to create a seemingly endless string of attacks and it seems that is where the game has gone. All i ever see is the dreaded focus dash cancel to super/ultra dick-in-the-ass and as it stands right now i see no light at the end of this tunnel for me to be able to use the same techniques.

There was a time when even Daigo stood in front of a SF machine and said “what does this button do?” so my question is, whats the general consensus on how to move past that and into the higher tier level of playing? Tips and tricks on working out combos and other moves would be helpful. I already know, and make full use of, the training mode and spend quite a considerable amount of time practicing there. I can now negate fireballs with FADC (though not when in a real fight… mostly just fear and adrenaline killing my thought process and reflexes) and whipping out shoryukens, hadokens, tatsumakis, etc… is of no real issue for me. its linking all these together to form the brutal combos i seem to get nailed with all the time that is my issue.

So… after writing that book of an article… does anyone have any useful “intermediate beginners” level advice?

2

Converting from pad to arcade stick is quite hard for us that have played pad all our lives. I hear some that say it takes a couple weeks and you’re good! :smiley: But that’s not the case. It really does take some dedication to learn how to use the arcade stick and LOTS of practice. Honestly, play the game. I know it sounds stupid but you only get better at controlling your character’s movements, normals, specials, and so on… by playing the game often. Mess with different characters too to make it enjoyable and not get stale. You never know… you might find another character that fits your style.

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Ok, so from what I’m reading you’ve played the game a week and a bit, and your complaining about how bad you are, first off, it’s natural, you obviously have the skill, you frigin played demon souls LOL. but experience is your main enemy here, don’t just give up on it next week, the first few weeks are REALLY hard, but dealing with them and being able to notice your results will make you forget all of that. As Kano said a stick is hard to play on, if you’ve never used one before, but you’ll get the hang of it sooner or later. have you even considered a main yet?, that will help you a lot, when i played sf4 for the first time, i knew from the start i was picking and maining Abel, underused, underrated, grappling and judo fighting type, he was perfect and knowing that i played the best Abel in my area made me feel great. One last thing, Daigo didn’t rise to fame in about 3 weeks, he’s been playing since he was about 10, and now he is 30 (i think), 20 years of street fighter and still not unbeatable, I’m going to be 15 by the end of this month, I’ve been playing for 2 years, i used to be a COD faggot, and played sf4 by mere accident and realized the potential, so basically you’re just going to have to stick at it, see what i did there, STICK at it XD LOL.

Happy noob Trolling :wink:

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Get that “im a hardcore gamer” shit out of here, because it doesn’t count for anything. Play the game and don’t expect to win for a damn long time.

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You know… for shits and giggles I actually went through and re-read my entire post, and back again over the other two replies before yours after reading it once already just to be sure of what you were referring to, and ill be damned… i couldnt find anything anywhere from anyone stating “im a hardcore gamer”… perhaps im just blind? maybe thats why im losing matches. But then again, im not blind enough to miss the part where i asked for “useful advice”, nor the part where I specifically pointed out my lack of tolerance for flaming posts. So i must not be that blind… you, on the other hand might want to have your eyesight checked, seeing as how you did in fact miss those little tidbits. Have a good one bro.

Yeah the stick has certainly proved to be a bit of a challenge to pick up, but ive adapted fairly well so far. I still need to work on my grip as im not always able to be accurate with my control, and doing dashes in either direction, as well as shoryuken motions to the right (which i currently use shortcuts in game to accomplish… but only to the right) are very difficult for me still. All other motions seem to come natural for the most part.Tips on working with a stick would definitely be useful.

Demons souls was easy in comparison to this… no doubt. I navigated DS in under 7 hours with fairly little resistance. Its definitely challenging, and i know its been the cause for numerous busted controllers across the globe but I generally take well to dungeon crawler type games. Im also 28 years old and have the patience of an older man. At your age i found metal gear solid to be an almost unbeatable game lol in time i grew more patient and now things are a bit more simple. I dont rush into situations to get my ass kicked anymore. However, in SF i dont need to rush in to get my ass kicked… the ass kicking comes to me with ferocious speed and an unstoppable 50 hit combo that tanks me before hes even finished performing it… lol definitely not my area of expertise.

As for my main, im going with the shoto line of chars, and ive picked Ryu/Evi Ryu as my most fluid chars that i could possibly take up to pro-ish level. Their move list covers a wide variety of moves that can be useful for a great deal of characters should i decide to venture out to others later on, and they have a lot of versatility in a match that can be used against any other character with the right person behind the stick. Ken is just too much of an asshole for my taste, Akuma is great but Evil Ryu just feels a bit more flexible in his ground game (speaking in terms of special moves/supers… i know nothing of combos/links/chains/etc…) and i like his “personality” a bit more. Gouken, Oni, and Dan (god i hate that fucking douche…) are all kind of “bleh” to me. Another possible main that ive done quite a bit of training with is Juri. Aside from being hands down the sexiest woman in street fighter (i dig the whole “nasty bitch” thing lol) shes got some wicked moves and is very quick in both dashing and air travel (which i know is not recommended but some of her moves/combos require it to some degree, and believe it or not ive won several matches with her that i probably wouldnt have without her, and all due to misdirection and keeping my opponent guessing on my landing zone and what i would be attempting while in the air) so i like her both as a personality and as a fighter. I was going to check out Chun-Li but then i found out shes a charge character. Ibuki is great too, so definitely another option for me. Was even thinking of checking out Dudley… i dislike him as a personality but his move set is pretty hard to disregard as being effective… between him and balrog id definitely pick him as a boxer type char. (i cant do charge…)

there are a lot of other options out there but to me the rest of them have kind of bland personalities and that matters to me. I feel my character is an extension of me and the things i like. That, and some of the other characters play styles (taking Fei Long or Makoto as an example) may be the most effective, but dont yet fit into my narrow level of skill in the game. Maybe as i progress… but for now im stuck dishing out shoryukens and pinwheel kicks (Juri) as i need them, leaving my entire strategy to defensive posture, only striking at whiffed moves or solid opportunities to strike. Based on what you now know of me and my play style, perhaps you or someone else can suggest a good main and give me some solid background as to the foundation of your suggestion? im open to anything at this point.

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^^^ in bold

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Perhaps you can explain how those two statements are anything alike? Better yet, just go be a douche in someone elses thread. Mkay? Thanks bud :slight_smile:

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Is there a mod here? I mean really… i would appreciate some help in this department before my initiation post into this forum gets bastardized by this, or any other douchebag on this site… im here for info, not dumbass remarks…

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Read up on the 5 stickied threads in this subforum(Newbie Saikyo Dojo)…the ones with the red pins.
Plentiful help for noobs such as yourself.

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already did lol still feeling malnourished in the information department. as we speak im reviewing some of the video tutorials which is giving me oodles of helpful information, but it always helps to hear objective opinions from multiple sources. everyone has their own way of doing things and their own story of how they learned to get better. some ideas work better for other people and i just want to explore as many options as i can. in the interim, the information can also be helpful with discerning techniques other players might use against me, which even if i am unable to use the technique myself, i can hopefully identify it as a threat when dealing with other opponents. these videos have been very helpful in giving me new ideas as well as new terrifying tactics to watch out for lol

11

Don’t feed the troll.

Theres an easy progression to build a foundation where you can actually start learning matchups and getting better. The first thing to do is realize what your punishment options are. Have a fast punish and a max punish. SF is a game about risks and captilizing on them. Good players don’t take crazy risks but beginner-intermediate players take them. So you can easily win matches simply by playing safe and punishing mistakes. By learning to play safe and punish. You can reach a point where a good player will at least have to extend some effort to beat you because they will have to take risks (however its far less risky because you may not know how to deal with their action so the risk is null)

I play Balrog for example a simple character. A quick punish is light punch, light punch, light kick, into fierce headbutt when I am in close. If the move they did is more unsafe. I can do a simple crouching medium punch->heavy dash straight for more damage. (SF damage scaling is awesome!) Set the dummy to do something like a dragon punch and practice hitting it with your punish. Literally repeatedly do the combo until you successfully can do it 10 times in a row. Until the actual act of inputing the combo becomes easy itself. You won’t be able to use it in a match. You can say almost the same thing about special moves. If you don’t have a high success rate on any of those. Those should be repeatedly practice also. Yes this is boring, but its the only way to get good. Good players spend hours daily in training mode to get to the level they are at. Nobody ever is just magically good at SF. Just like an instrument it takes practice and hard work.

Another hard part about SF is links. I know I will get flamed for this but literally linking balrog’s light punch, light punch into the light kick into the headbutt was really hard to do consistently when you have no basis to really understand why it doesn’t work visually. You can’t special cancel the light kick unless you link the light kick from the light punch. You can mash on the buttons and get the punchs to come out but the headbutt won’t because you didn’t wait after the light punch to link into the light kick. The easiest shortcut to understand the rhythm of the combo is to hear someone do it on a stick. So I searched online till I found some old DSP Balrog tutorial where I could hear him do the combos. You could also record yourself practicing and playback the sound when you did it correctly. Then you just play DDR and memorize the rhythm and hit the buttons. Once you start to be able to do your first link consistently. They rest start to make a lot more sense. Don’t be afraid to cheat to figure out the first one.

Also selecting an easy character to play on purpose is also a great way to start. Balrog and Ryu are both solid beginner characters with easy combos. Learn Ryu to play a motion character or Balrog to play a charge character. Both have easier combos and are stronger characters.

I’m not a great player by any means, but I can say I am competent. I was essentially right where you are about 4-5 months ago and you can really rapidly improve if you just work on being able to do a handful of simple options consistently. Once you have your foundation you build upon it.

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Sound advice any day of the week… lol im just tired. it annoyed me and acted against my better judgement. touche’

definitely sound advice. I will start working on it. I do understand what you mean a little bit about the linking combos and rhythmic button taps. I experimented with that a little bit earlier today and was able to get Ryu to do some “normal” move combos by giving myself some leeway between button presses and not trying to slam it all together at lightning speed. The problem with this is that it gets confusing because some things DO require lightning fast button presses, like Ryus crouching MK > shoryuken/hadoken. to learn that i basically had to program my fingers to macro the button presses and stick movements into one fluid motion almost like a special move all in its own. I can pull it off easily against the stationary dummy now… but in battle? eh… lol

As for balrog, unfortunately i dont see eye to eye with you on your view that charge characters are good beginner tools, because i cant understand them for shit lol at least not competently enough to make them useful in battle. I will just sit there and get the ever loving shit stomped out of me while trying to charge a move that was probably valid a few seconds prior when i started charging for it, but by the time im ready to release, my opponent is already miles away from the location they were originally, and probably with their foot firmly up my ass… for this reason, chars like Vega, Blanka, Balrog, and Chun-Li will be out of my range of comprehension at least for a while. Which is sad because they are all really awesome characters. I just find them extremely expert in execution… at least, if one tends to make use of them online anyways lol

13

Links must be timed, Cancels must be ‘mashed’

Links are normals timed to come one after the other. For example Makotos s.mp is +5 on hit and has 5 frame startup. With 1 frame timing it will combo. Yangs s.lp is +8 hit so with varying levels of timing, most everything will combo. The execution thread can help you further, but if you KNOW something combos then a quick litmus - if you did it too fast the move won’t come out if you did it slow the move won’t combo; narrow in from there. For lights same idea except if you did it too fast you cannot cancel.

Cancels are specials coming from normals. That is a special motion done within the ‘cancel window’ of a cancellable normal. This tends to be fairly lenient so don’t worry TOO much. If done properly then the special will cancel the normals animation and activate immediately. It may not COMBO depending on special but cancelling can always be done. Quick litmus - its visually obvious, but if something like S.HPxx[means cancel]Hadouken isn’t comboing then something bugged up

I wrote a post elsewhere about baseline performace, which I personally think is a bit rough but you say yah got the spine for it… People tend to say that you need to learn fundementals first, but I find when teaching people the game if they can’t do a hadouken then it’s pretty hopeless. So take Ryu and do three things. S.HPxxShoryuken C.Mkxxhadouken. C.lpx2 [link] C.HP[2f link] xx tatsu. Just do those over and over until you get it down say 70%.Then take it online or arcade or practice with CPU ON, anything to get a moving target. And try to get those things out. Don’t worry if you get hit. Playing online don’t worry if you lose. Just do those things until they become 2nd nature under pressure. Don’t even need to hit it 100% just be comfortable in trying. After you’re at that level you can start building fundementals and things will start to come into focus.

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I’ve only been playing for like 5-6 months so I know how it feels getting absolutely destroyed.
This is how I got started

GODLIKE Vesperarcade tutorial

Watch ALL of his tutorials. Almost everything you need to know about Street fighter is covered in these tutorials. Make sure you understand and are able to apply all the basics before moving on to the more advanced stuff.

The footsie Bible
http://sonichurricane.com/?page_id=1702

A tutorial for the more advanced players, covering footsies. Even though you won’t be able to use most of this because you lack experience, just read it all and try and understand why and how players use this and the reasoning behind it.

Also I recommend watching TONS and TONS of high level play (replay channel/youtube) and analyze the match (why did he do this move at that particular time?)

But most importantly keep practicing. Experience is very VERY important in fighting games. The more you play the more you will learn about your character (what leaves you vulnerable and what not) and AGAINST characters. Bison is a good example, if you don’t know the bison matchup it seems like he is god compared to ryu. But when you start learning his weaknesses they are very easy to exploit.

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both are outstanding responses and i appreciate the time sharing them. I will definitely be checking out some of that information tomorrow. As for those videos, those are the ones ive been watching lol its a long ass series of vids and im almost done. Problem is, im so tired right now im damn near falling asleep in the training room with my arcade stick in my lap lol so i need to jet. ill finish his vids tomorrow and also check out the other info as well.

Though i must say, 75% of what that guy is covering in those vids is WAY out of my league… im sitting there watching his hands like “are you fucking serious… really…” rofl i dunno if i have that kind of dexterity in my wrist. the buttons arent the issue, its the stick. but the catch 22 is im definitely better with the stick than the pad, just not anywhere near as good as him lol

Well if anyone here would like a freebie chance to lay down an ass whoopin on a newbie and show off some combos, and hopefully drop some pointers, feel free to hit me up on PSN. My PSN ID is WarlockDLX.

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Being fairly new to ideas of competitive fighting games myself the only real way to learn to play is to play. If you have access to a local arcade where there are good players go to them and play them. If they aren’t pricks as them questions. Otherwise consult sites for info. Really in fighters Ive gathered experience is key. Eventually if you don’t play like a noob and keep your head in the game… you will know what your opponent wants to do how to stop and and punish properly. Like I said this comes with time and much practice. Play.

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honestly, break it down piece by piece, do you understand the fundamentals of the game? by that I mean are you understanding how the game is played? I have been playing a few months and I have indeed been getting better. I try to understand the spacing of the game, I try not to walk myself into a corner and I generally watch the replays of every match I lose. you need to understand where you lost at certain times. identify what you did or didnt do and prepare for that in the training room. If you watch/read any expert level player talk about their skill and how they got there, they practice and utilize the training room. In a recent interview diago explains that in order to stay on top he trains for 9 hours a day. Practice, train and experience. best advice anyone on here can give you. there is no tricks or tips that make you better.

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Well, the way I learned the arcade stick motions is by doing it slowly first. If I can’t even do it slow, then I’m definitely doing something wrong. I do all the specials, supers, and ultras’ motions slowly until I rarely miss. Then I quicken the pace and see how fast I can do it before I screw up again. Also, doing it on both P1 side and P2 side is VERY important. Just do simple motion exercises.

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yeah i can do everything slowly. i can run through sho’s and hado’s in training like they were nothin. back to back supers and ultras like butter. but when the pressure is on and i need it to come out it doesnt always want to… the biggest problem area is going to the right side of the screen. on a controller i can do hado’s no problem on either side but sho’s still give me problems. on the stick, hados, sho’s, and supers/ultras all give me issues going to the right. my wrist just isnt designed for that kind of movement i guess. i find myself having to switch grips mid battle depending on the side im on and this just throws my game way out of whack… especially on cross ups.

as for knowing “how the game is played” i think i have a good idea… as far as how it should be played and how it IS being played i dont know. seems all i ever run into anymore online are sho>FADC>metsu hadoken spammers. that is apparently the new bread and butter for Ryu… i honestly consider it to be a cheap move, as even i can get it to come out if i really wanted to, so people with heavy experience can just slay this combo like it was a basic shoryuken. This, to me, says they are just looking for the cheap way out. the move is worth like half a health bar, maybe more. I always got into fighting games to fight… not drain peoples healthbars in 2 or 3 hits. seems like that same combo would get boring after a while. nevertheless, i will be attempting to master it as it is the way of the modern SF warrior, and i need to adapt. Though i do hope i can find it in me to come up with more interesting ways to dispatch my opponents that actually drop jaws. Ive only been playing this a little over a week and im already no longer impressed with that particular combo. ive seen some pretty amazing moves from Ryu and these guys are obviously skilled enough to use them so it makes no sense that they dont. cheese IMO

as for the rest of the game, im still learning all of it. its probably the most complicated fighting game ever made. ive never seen anything so intricate (save for maybe soul calibur but… i really dont consider that to be a traditional fighting game…) so i definitely need as many crash courses as i can cram into my memory banks as possible. thus, why im here lol so far just in this one thread ive been given quite a bit of helpful information and im looking forward to grinding on it tomorrow. when it comes to knowledge, you can never have enough.

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ah da da. Don’t fall into the trap of ‘cheap’. And endless people will definitely jump on the idea that this is the most complicated fighting game ever. It IS deseperately annoying to have opponents who can ace your entire lifebar when you’re struggling to get 2 hitters off on them, but don’t let it get you down. Also its very common for people to have issues with a particular side. I have a harder time doing a super from left to right. If you’re looking to amaze people with whack ass combos there are plenty of chars who do just that [gen, dudley, and oni come to mind] but don’t get ahead of yourself. Precision and power come with time, but don’t forget that the basics are what win games. Quick Edit: Also. UGH. This is why if a person can’t do a hadouken you don’t tell them to memorize a footsie handbook. It’s too much. The appllications aren’t clear and it generates attitudes that following a guide is making you better than the guy mashing out shoryus. This isn’t the case. COMPREHENSION NOT MERELY KNOWLEDGE PRECEDES VICTORY.

Too Short; Didn’t Read - Well, not really this point isn’t in the proceding, but as you get more familiar with the game you will find that its not merely combos that makes it fascinating. Put bluntly you’re not plumping the depths just yet, you’re peering through the window.