There are ways around the button limitation. You could give the character a slide like DeeJay’s, command normals that always knock down or that are uncancellable but leave you in plus frames, etc. They could do it properly, but either they don’t care or don’t really know how to do it. As for the ST Balrog or HF Blanka bit, they wouldn’t be possible as circle motion characters since you couldn’t give them the same properties.
I mean, Arcana did a wonderful job with Saki (adding a new twist with u,d and f, b charge moves). A proper charge character in KOF would be refreshing.
The thing is I feel Guile would work really well in KOF, he already does in CVS2 and would work well in the context of having two buttons. He doesn’t even need Bazooka Knee and the only other normals that keep him stationary to maintain charge is mash jabs, far roundhouse, and crouching stuff.
I’d translate his moveset from KOF like this (mainly based around his CVS2 moveset):
cl.A = cl.LP ; far A = far LP ; cr.A = cr.LP ; f.A = f.HP ; j.A = neutral j.MP (Super Turbo)
cl.B = st.LK; far B = far MK ; cr.B = cr.MK, b.B = b.MK, f.B = f.MK ; j.B = j.LK
cl.C = cl.HP; far C = far HP; cr.C = cr.MP, df.C = cr.HP ; j.C = j.HP (Air Throw OS)
cl.D = cl.MK (Super Turbo) ; far D = far HK ; cr.D = cr.HK ; j.D = j.HK
st.CD = f.HK (upside down kick) ; j.CD = b.LK (yes, a heavy hitting, jumping bazooka knee)
Of course the speeds and damage output wouldn’t necessarily be the same as they are in CVS2/ST, but the general animations of the moves will maintain.
Like when I say cr.B will be cr.MK, the move could be the in-between of Guile’s cr.LK and cr.MK and end up being something like Leona’s cr.B in 98. Except, I’d have it only be able to chain out into cr.A and not into itself and won’t be cancelable; all trying to keep the feel of a cr.MK but could go into a cr.B cr.A xx Flash Kick if he wants.
The reason why Spinning Back Knuckle is on the A button is so that Guile can run up cl.C if he wants to anti-air from particular angles or land a small combo. Many command normals that “feel heavy” are often on weaker normals such as Iori’s f.A being a longer range far C. So Guile can keep feeling like Guile while gaining access to one of KOF’s nuances.
Since Guile wouldn’t be Guile without cr.MP, cr.HP will be his cr.MP just like how Terry’s cr.C is his KOF version of the SF cr.MP. Also since Guile already dominates most of the jump space with godly anti-air normals and a flash kick, need give him a bit of work if you want to reaction anti-air without charge against full jumps, so cr.HP has been demoted to df.C. He’d also be able to do cr.B, cr.A df.C into flash kick. All American kinda like Terry.
st.CD will be airborne and lower body invul, it’ll be about the same speed as f.HK and should be good for oki. j.CD is a good pressure move with a downward hitbox, think of something like a merge of Benimaru’s j.B with Kyo’s j.CD. And of course Guile’s hop will be more weighty than Benimaru’s. It would be more in the line of Kyo’s kind of hop.
Other than df.C, all of his command normals can’t cancel out of. If spaced correctly, b.B would link into f.A. So Guile to punish someone without charge would be run forward and do cl.C xx b.B sobat > f.A.
Also Guile wouldn’t be Guile without that cool double sweep. It’ll work like ST where it’s a true blockstring when blocked, so no interruption in-between. Also, it’ll gain KOF properties of being able to cancel it upon whiff, and Guile can cancel any time during the active frames of either kick and in-between each kick. This kind of cr.D already exists with Oswald’s cr.D from KOFXI for the most part, I don’t recall the second hit being cancelable but I haven’t really test that part.
Guile’s Sonic Boom would be easy to hop over just like King’s Venom Strike, but in return his spacial control with normals are just really strong. Even on offense, he has the moveset to get in on a character and open them up, but when blocked he could easily get back into his pressure game. So he’s like a Heidern, Leona, and 02um King combined with a more or less unique moveset.
Remember, there is already “Guile” in KOF with Heidern and Ash Crimson. Ash is pretty much SNK’s interpretation of a Guile character. If XIII Ash’s normals and special moveset was put into 98, he’d be really really good as most characters can’t hop over his “LP sonic boom.” The only reason why Ash is really weak is damage output, otherwise his normals are really good and cover everything. Only thing he really needs in terms of normals it’s further range on far D and vertical range on cl.C similar to Kyo’s or Iori’s.
With KOF, many normals don’t have a huge extended hurt box after the active frames of normals and with more subsystems for movement, many characters have more dynamic ways of controlling the neutral game without needing specials, Leona being a huge example of this while being a charge character. Guile is similar if he gets put into KOF, his normals control everything and has enough normals to go on an offense similar to Leona’s What would make him stand out between Leona, Heidern, King, and Ash is his unique projectile that would not over lap Venom Strike (in motion and speed), Psychoball (no hop control like psychoball could and difference in motion), Heidern’s projectile (speeds and area of control), Ash’s (speeds and area of control), and a dynamic moveset that already greatly differs from everyone else’s. Even with Ash being design to be like a Guile in KOF, the way I designed Guile to fit in KOF is already dynamic enough to differ from how Ash plays to be a unique character.
Like even charge characters without projectiles would work really well. Like Blanka could be as gay as Chris if his j.HK was turned into a j.CD just as strong as Chris’, j.MK cross up turns into j.D, abusable slide, decent usable anti-air normals just like Chris more or less only has cr.C and cl.D, I can go on and on. Same with Honda and especially Honda. Boxer just would have to hitconfirm like two cr.A into cr.B and go into low rush and have it combo or head butt.
Thing is with most KOF characters with charge is that if they do a hop or run up and do a 2 or 3 crouching hitconfirm, they build enough charge for down up motions or back forward after coming from a hop. Like Ash would still be good if they got rid of his projectile and made his charge back forward kick combo from lights.
I wish I can design a CVS3/SVC2… I have some interesting ideas to try to mess around with. Or at least tinker around with CVS2 with an “Ono!” like program.
John quick question. You may have covered it but it’s probably buried: Are empty jumps punishable or not? I know in 13 if you empty jump or jump in and you attack whiffs they have 1 frame to punish you. So I’m just curious if this is retained or not.
There is no reason logistically why they couldn’t have the same properties. Just because the input is different doesn’t mean you HAVE TO change the move properties entirely.
There is definitely landing recovery. It doesn’t feel like a huge window, but I’ve seen empty jumps get punished with cl.C. Tripguard is definitely in as well, and there are a surprising amount of moves that are not true air to ground that you can cr.B under.
Are you using Tripguard in the retarded Juicebox sense, as in, you’re calling the lack of Tripguard, Tripguard? So that “trip anti-airs” work. Or, are you really saying that there is tripguard in the game like 3rd Strike where you can block any meaty low attack if you empty jump.
Assuming by your description, I assume it’s the former and there is no tripguard and you can trip anti-air.
Yes, there are many, many reasons. First, you’d end up with infinites. Charge moves in SF usually compensate the need to charge them with faster recovery. Give Balrog or Guile circle motions and they would be able to Sonic Boom or Rush Punch you to death. So you’d have to reduce recovery.
Similarly, a character like Guile would be god tier since you would not be able to jump at him, ever. Sonic boom, then flashkick on command would be broken as all hell.
Not having to charge of course would let you do moves in situations you are not supposed to, like walking forward for example. Chun’s super in ST can be used while walking forward and you can execute it with a single button press once stored, and it’s really powerful because it was not designed to be executed in that situation. Imagine if Honda’s headbutt was a SRK. Forget about jumping at him, ever. People design strategies around a character not being able to do a certain charge move.
tl;dr: in SF, charge inputs do have many reasons to exist. The strengths and weaknesses of those moves are designed around their charge properties. In KOF, charge inputs are mostly cosmetic.
I was talking about non fireball charge characters, and I’m pretty sure Balrog can’t continue a combo after dash punch, so there’s no infinite there. The only thing that would change is that you could move forward and do dash punch, which probably wouldn’t be that ridiculous in KoF. And if Honda headbutt was a DP, okay, you can’t jump. But that doesn’t stop you from walking forward and jabbing when he tries to go for it. Then it’s a footsies game, and if you make a good read and hop a poke, you’re getting in.
The point of charge moves in KoF is really just to stop you from moving forward to do them, which is less than cosmetic for how KoF is designed and how it is played. It’s a much more offensive game than SF and not being able to move forward is a big deal, so the move you’re dedicated to charging has to be important, otherwise you’re losing pressure and giving your opponent a chance to get in on you. It’s also why charge time in KoF is so short, people are going to be on you quickly if you can’t get your charge move out there fast enough. If Ash had to deal with ST charge times, he’d be unplayable because you simply would not be able to control the screen well enough to be any kind of effective.
Just say there is no trip-guard and that you can trip anti-air people. That’s it. Or call it ST style tripping. But calling the lack of trip guard “trip guard” is like the most retarded thing ever and for some reason dumbasses like Juicebox keep perpetuating it and now everyone is using incorrectly.
It’s like saying that sour milk is sweet because it isn’t sweet. Like what?
Like the saddest part is that most Western KOF players didn’t even know the simple basic fact of it and then you get some dumbasses as commentators spreading misinformation and now everyone says it. That’s the worst part.
At least like people like Giby or the hosts on KOFCast put people on blast for saying Tripguard improperly.
People have been saying Tripguard in #SNKPlaymore way before KOFXIII man.
Anyway back on subject, so I installed the game again the other day. Man it feels so much fun to play, I can’t wait the beta to open so I can actually play it against you guys.
So a bunch of these characters aren’t available for me yet. Is that because I need to play to unlock them? That’d suck, since I can’t really play people. Hah.
Get to level 20 (unlocks Long who had his name retranslated AGAIN, Panda, Claire, and Ba Yu)
Get 20 wins (unlocks Lynn and Brazel)
Have 5 consecutive login days (unlocks Ameth and CoolB)
The level unlock characters are permanent, the other 4 are unlocked for a time limit then you need to unlock them again. Just grind against the Chinese, you live a lost closer to them than I do and I get playable matches. It won’t take you more than a couple hours to get like 5 characters unlocked, and then you’re most of the way there.
