No, I’m not fucking kidding you, and it’s pretty fucking simple to sync up video after the fact in any case. Like I said, I agree that the speed is essentially the same on both systems. That post was meant for people who don’t believe this is so. But if you think this vid is “proof” of anything then you’re kidding yourself.
It’s more proof then anything you’ve provided brah
on my 52" samsung in the settings theres something called game mode. what does this do? does it have something to do with input lag?
Of course, because I’m not the one trying to prove anything. I believe the burden of proof rests with the naysayers.
But even so this vid still isn’t proof of anything. It’s evidence supporting a particular view. If someone now posts a vid where the PS3 ends up looking faster, would you call that proof? You need to run a series of tests under different conditions (that’s exactly what they do when they run benchmarks of hardware) and then compare the results.
This vid is a step in the right direction, but it’s not enough to kill the debate (as you can clearly see from some of the responses in this thread).
It takes the video from the console and displays it without sending it through the TV’s signal processors, which means the image is displayed quicker. It’s got nothing to do with input lag.
[EDIT] For clarification, as jcerwinske rightly pointed out, it does have something to do with signal input lag. But if you mean pressing a button and the inputs not coming out on time (controller input lag), then Game Mode will not help that because it’s not the video signal that’s lagging.
what “game mode” does on a particular TV model can be very different … some TVs only change colors, for example … consult the manual for your specific model for this …
ok thank you guys.
I run the game on 2 identical Dell LCD’s, using my TE sticks for both 360 and PS3. It’s essentially the same setup on both. Unless there is an issue with the TE sticks, then I know it’s not a hardware issue.
I will try and put some more thought into how I’m going to prove that there’s a speed difference. One thing people need to keep in mind when testing this is don’t test this with any 2-frame link combos, 2-in-1 cancels, etc. Those combos are way too easy to be testing this with. It’s the 1-frame link combos where this speed difference really shows. Try playing guile and do some of his.
Awesome work!
I know that during the tournament we attended, we all had trouble landing combos and links in general. It might’ve been the PS3, it might’ve been the TV, but the native system we play on is xbox 360 on HDTV with HRAP’s and fight sticks and we have 90-100% execution. We used a PS3 HRAP and a PS3 fight stick and we were still missing things on the PS3 version. It was really disheartening, and I believe this aspect (TV difference & gameplay difference) should be looked into more since we see the games run at the same speeds console wise.
Sabre The Myth Buster!
WTF, you’re correct in description as to what it does, but this has HUGE consequences on input lag. Input lag = the time between when the actions on the console are performed on the console, and when the results are displayed on the screen. All that extra image processing going on in your TV ramps up that time to display resulting in horrendous input lag. Turn it ON, NOW, and you will notice a HUGE reduction in input lag.
If you happen to have a Wii, it will clearly illustrate the problems that arise in input lag when “game mode” is not on. The cursor will just trail behind where your pointing at, making fast, accurate aiming impossible. For me, turning on game mode completely limited the input lag…
To say “it’s got nothing to do with input lag” is retarded. That’s whole point WHY they started including those modes in the first place…
This video was great! I played both as well and I have to admit the only thing setting me back were the controller differences. However, I have to admit, when watching all the arcade cabinet matches online, the arcade version seems to move much quicker and crisper. Combos are executed much smoother it appears, and the gameplay just seems much faster. I have tried to emulate certain lines and combos like as shown on certain matches (IE Inoue vs Aiku), but not hitting them consistently like in the videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH7-UANPr_8
Thoughts?
Gilley, it could still be a hardware thing. Like I said, I didn’t rule out timing differences. I would not be suprised if the ps3, in general, lags. Its a big possibility. Its a matter of testing which I don’t have the time or resources for.
I was referring to lag gamepad input lag, not display input lag. And tbh, it doesn’t sound like you know what display input lag is. Gamepad/controller input lag is measured from the time you press a button on the pad. Display input lag starts when the signal enters the TV. In other words, it’s got nothing to do with what the console does. You can chain several devices between your console and the TV and the display lag will still only be measured upon signal input into the TV.
ps. You’re very much mistaken if you think Game Mode on the newer Samsungs makes a “huge” difference in SFIV. I have a Samsung and have tested both modes. If there is a difference (besides a darker picture in Game Mode), I haven’t noticed it. You’re only like to notice a difference if the game has to be upscaled to HD. SFIV is already HD.
I measure input lag as being from the time the command leaves my thumb to the time I see a result on screen. (ibutton to screen time). This would be from controller to console (your definition of "gamepad input lag) PLUS internal time in the console, where your command input is being interpreted as an action and it’s effect added to the gamestate (you don’t mention this internal time, frankly it’s ~0 as far as we care though) PLUS video output from console to showing up on screen, which includes console to tv across a wire in ADDITION to internal image processing time + pixel response time to display image. (your definition of “signal input lag” is better described as “internal signal processing time”). Nevermind the fact that “signal input lag” doesn’t really mean anything as far as making any kind of worthwhile distinction, as ALL of these are electrical signals. Gamepad lag is just as much “signal lag” as video processing lag is.
There is NO functional difference between your distinctions of lag except for different discreet start and end points. It’s all electrons traveling on a path, and you just want to minimize travel time between start and end points, regardless of whether it is some straight analog hardware function like a controller signal converter, or a more complex process that runs of a timer, sending discreet signals, driving digital circuits, which runs software handling image processing…
Turning ON game mode turns OFF internal image processing, which means LESS clock cycles between when the image is received from the console to when it is displayed, which means the affects of me pressing a button are displayed faster (closer to tButtonPress), which is a reduction in input time.
Yes there is a difference though depending if you’ve got lag in the chain before hitting the console, or after leaving the console, but in practicality, it doesn’t really matter.
For gamepad lag, but no video processing lag, your reactions aren’t registering with the game until a bit later, but what you see on the screen is the true state of the game.
For video processing lag, but no gamepad lag your reactions are registering with the game at the right time, but you are reacting to something on the screen that is NOT the current state of the game (the signal is late, due to processing lag).
IN EITHER case, the end result is that the game you see on the screen reacts with delay to your input and you’ll be playing behind what you see.
Personally, I see a noticeable difference between “game mode” and non “game mode” settings when playing SFIV over HDMI on a Samsung LN40A650. I see it with my own two eyes, and it becomes glaringly obvious as I try to play… so in no way am I mistaken… However, you are correct in that the difference is vastly more apparent when an SD source needs to be upscaled, as I mentioned with using a Wii on this TV. This is because upscaling adds more to the image processing time. TV’s have tons of other video processing tricks (picture “enhancers”, etc) going on behind the scenes, other than just scaling, which also take up processing time, and to me, it makes a notable difference to turn them off.
I’m really not trying to bust your balls or anything, but a lagging video signal WILL result in delayed looking button presses, if the players fingers are the beginning of this feedback loop and his eyes, the end of it.
I play Guile on a 360 at my place and on a PS3 and my buddy’s place.
I use the same stick for each system (dual PCB) and I can do Guile’s 1 frame links all day long on his PS3 where as this is not the case on my 360.
I play and practice on my 360 all the the time so it’s not due to being more comfortable or used to the PS3. I simply perform better on his PS3 than I do on my 360. It just seems as though the PS3 is more forgiving than the 360.
^ Same tv?
S3rv0: that doesn’t say much, since I’m very sure you and your buddy uses a different model tv, and possible different way to hook up the console(hdmi, component,vga, etc). Honestly, no one should be judging console difference on timing issues until they plasy both on the exact same model. There are so many tv’s out there that produce wildly different results.
Your definition and the definition are not the same thing. Display input lag has got nothing to do with you pressing buttons. Button presses go from controller to console. The audiovisual signal goes from console to TV, and the delay from the time it gets to the TV to the time it gets displayed is known as Input Lag. I’m not going to get into a semantic debate about a recognized and reasonably defined phenomenon. I should have made that clear when I made the original most but I assumed that he was talking about controller lag (because the discussion had reached the point where joysticks were being considered). If you’re going to change the definition of input lag then we could end up arguing about nothing all day.
And an inferior input converter can do the same thing, and no amount of Game Mode twiddling will fix it. That’s why the distinction exists.
There’s no real point in arguing about this. You were right for pointing out make my initial oversight, but you’re wrong in saying that input lag is measured from the time you press a button till the time it gets displayed. The one form happens from controller to console, and the other from TV input to display. Lumping them together confounds the issue. If you don’t agree with me, so be it. It’s not really essential to the thread anyway.
damn good music