WWF No Mercy for the N64

Classic Fighting Games Other Games
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Even though this game is 10 years old, it remains one of the greatest Wrestling games ever, if not THE greatest game. 4 way brawls, Triple Threats, this game has some of the best multi-player action ever, and the ability to completely customize characters makes it that much better.

I know I’m not the only one who loves this game. So hopefully there will be other people interested in discussing strategy…which is in the case of CAWs is more move specific.

Players with better reflexes tend to do better in this game, but as in all games there are always tiers. In this case, the tiers are odd, and no, they’re not based on who my favorite wrestler is. Otherwise Eddie Guerrero would be top.

God Tier

X-Pac

Top Tier (basically any character who can do a sleeper hold off of a weak grapple.)

Andre the Giant
Chyna
Jeff Hardy
Kurt Angle
Mankind
Mick Foley
Stone Cold
Shawn Michaels
Test
Tori

Upper Middle Tier (Super Heavies = Anti Sleeper, Characters with Strong Submissions & Solid Movesets)

Bradshaw
Bull Buchanon
Chris Benoit
Chris Jericho
Dean Malenko
Ken Shamrock
Kurt Angle
Farooq
Mark Henry
Perry Saturn
Rikishi
Steve Blackman
Tazz
Viscera

Middle Tier (Characters with useful Strong Strikes, and Very Good Move Sets, and Specials. Would be Top or Uppermid, if not for the cheapness of Submissions)

Al Snow
Buh Buh
The Rock (Doesn’t have any special submission but does massive arm damage)
D-Von
Edge
Essa Rios
Kane
Triple H
Undertaker

Low Tier is everyone else.

I’ve never read any strategy guides for this game. Just a bunch of FAQs filled with CAWs. I’d like to keep this discussion mostly based on move analysis and strats.

Technically speaking this is a wrestling game, but…it seems more appropriate to put this in fighting game discussion than in general discussion. This seems more like a fighting game to me(at least intuitively) than the Psychic Force series. If I posted this in the wrong area, I apologize.

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I never played No Mercy competitively (nor was I aware it had a “scene” until fairly recently), so I’m interested in hearing the more in-depth strategies.

I can understand why Submissions are so in PvP (same as in most Wrestling games), but what the Sleeper Hold particularly good? Is it because of quickness and speed of execution?

I also remember hearing long ago that running strikes were pretty overpowered, with Bradshaw being tops because of his Running Lariat.
I also remember reading that a lot of attacks in the game were based off the “Flying” stat, including a surprising amount of attacks that you wouldn’t expect. Does that configure into the tier rankings at all?

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This would be the first time Sean Waltman would be in any sort of high-tier. It’s that damn finisher of his, takes like half a second for the animation to happen, so you can do like five of them in any given SPECIAL mode, and it does retardedly high damage.

But what makes him that much better than SCSA who also has a quick finisher? His speed?

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Return of Shiki No Mercy has a lot of balance issues. Some weak grabs are as strong grabs, some strong grabs are as strong as special grabs, and some special grabs are pathetically weak.

The sleeper hold can break a character in 7 applications. It’s the most powerful weak grab submission than the game, and stronger than quite of a few of the strong submissions. It’s also very easy to avoid rope break with the sleeper hold.

I can’t say there’s a specific scene for No Mercy, but I do know that it is played very often. It’s one of the few active Boards on Gamefaqs for a game that’s 10 year old. My experience has mostly been at local tournaments.

Some weak and strong grabs target the flying hit point, but they aren’t particularly powerful. The most powerful flying moves are the one’s off the turnbuckle. Even though the turnbuckle is very effective for a character with powerful “flying” offense, it’s not anywhere near as abusive as submissions.

Running strikes aren’t that abusive. Some are better than others, and don’t leave the character in a bad position when countered, but they are all easy to reverse. Some normal strikes, like the Bradshaw Hammer, can “combo” very well which is one reason why Bradshaw is rated so high, but very few fast strikes are safe on counter.

blinky77 the most specials you can get away with is 3 with one special submission, and that’s usually if you’re timing is exact. No one else can comes close to building Meter like X-Pac. He builds meter so quickly that after one X-Factor he can get to special before his opponent can recover and do another one. Or in his case, 3. Stone Cold is good, but he can’t do that. What makes things harder is that X-Pac is a high flyer which allows him to do a lot of damage on the big guys who are resistant to Sleeper hold. His main weakness is poor striking moves.

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I personally played and preferred Wrestlemania 2000 over No Mercy. Still bust it out every now and then

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Silks, I think No Mercy’s game engine has more depth to it, and the CAW mode is a lot better. I definitely prefer No Mercy over W2K.

I notice a lot of players use auto counters in No Mercy. Although the auto counters (Falling Arm Breaker, Hip Toss) can’t be reversed…they are very, VERY weak. Late game when both players have suffered heavy damage they’re ok, but early game, only a few are worth using, and then only if you’re a submission specialist. The Striking Counters (Bradshaw Hammer, Buh Buh Punch) do considerably more damage to body parts, and when they knock opponents down they stay on the ground much longer.

Contrary to the submission faq on gamefaqs, there are quite a few submissions that submit multiple body parts, but those are rarely the most damaging. The worst submission in the game by far is the Venis grind and punch.

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Was No Mercy the wrestling game that had a combination of famous Japanese wrestlers in additional to the WWF superstars?

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That might be WCW vs. nWo World Tour you’re thinking about. WCW vs The World had some well-known Japanese wrestlers (under different names of course) as well. Same people made all those games.

WWF No Mercy has Japanese moves like the Burning Hammer, as well as a few faces and attire options to make a few well-known Japanese dudes, but nothing out of the box - I still wish it had some lucha masks to give the characters…

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World Tour and Revenge had more japanese wrestlers. They included all of the moves and stuff for them in the WWF games though.

Tier list is odd. X-Pac isn’t God tier, but he’s good. You can compete with him with a lot of those people. Chyna and Tori I don’t know about, because they don’t have good enough normals and grapples for the most part to be well rounded.

Just having a sleeper doesn’t automatically make someone that good, IMO.

Bradshaw could be higher, I’m not sold on Saturn or Viscera.

Agree with Middle tier and lower.

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Btw, is there an emulator that allows this to be played online? If so we need to start a league.

This game is too awesome.

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You can try Project64k or Mupen64 Kaillera. I’ve yet to have a really good experience with N64 emulators though, and from experience it’s even worse trying to find a good one for OSX - Mupen64Plus is being updated but without any GUI, while the developer of sixtyforce charges for the ability to do basic shit…and doesn’t have support for multiple plugins.

And I agree, No Mercy is my favorite wrestling game to play, hands down. Someone should bring it to Final Round, MWC, etc.

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With as few as 7 sleepers a character will tap out. No other weak grapple in the game comes close to being that cheap. There are A and S specials that don’t do that kind of head damage. The sleeper is stronger the Mounted Punch submission special, and harder to get a rope break. It’s an unfair advantage.

If the sleeper was a strong grab or special like it should have been, then the tiers would be different. HBK, Kurt Angle, Mankind/Mick Foley, and Stone Cold would be upper mid, and everyone else would be bottom. X-Pac would still be God tier since he can build meter so easily.

Saturn and Viscera both have good striking moves, and are very good at getting opponents to submit. Viscera has all those head submissions, and Saturn has very good arm submissions. Saturn has that annoying sweep kick as well. Bradshaw is good, but not better than the other characters in upper mid. If the Bradshaw Hammer is countered, the opponent does an armbar. Submission counters do the most damage, and build the most meter. That makes it a double edged sword.

Project 64 didn’t work too well for me. After a while, the game goes into a static state where you can still play, but you can’t edit characters, buy things, or win title belts. The last time I played a game on Kaillera most of the players hacked into the games to give themselves cheap abilities like 1 hit kills. If you could get a group going who wouldn’t do that, you could probably have fun. Nothing quite as fun as a triple threat match or ladder match.

As long as you have the memory Pack, the N64 is the most reliable thing. Blinky77’s idea about bringing No Mercy to an event like Final Round is a good one. You wouldn’t be able to use your own CAWs, but it’s not like the regular roster isn’t good; I’d pick Saturn or Rikishi and take on all challengers.

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Yeah, all of the tiers really matter more in one on one matches too. Bradshaw can land the lariat to the back of someones head easier when they aren’t focused on him. And it’s hard to submit when you have a good partner backing you up in a battle royale (not impossible though, some submits are pretty instant)

I also seem to remember some normals that can KO in less than 7 tries too, so it also matters what rules you’re playing with. I also know they lowered power on head strike stuff (like kanyons kick) from revenge and KOs are generally harder in the WWF games.

There are also some really strong leg submissions but I would have to play again to remember a lot about it.

I haven’t played much in the last few years.

Luckily the game was made right and there are plenty of settings that can even the playing field.

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And I agree, fuck CAW in serious play. I use mostly Shamrock.

I’d like to play at Bar Battles in CBus this month. I need to gauge interest.

We have played revenge in tourneys in Ohio before casually as well.

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LuckyDay, if I was near Columbus and not in school at the time I’d def. be going to Bar Battles Gaiden, but I’m going to focus on Final Round and MWC instead, so I hope to see you and the rest of Columbus down there this year. I’d be cool with not using CAWs as well, but for the sake of interest my CAW roster at the moment looks like this:
Big Show (WM2K moveset)
Gangrel (WM2K moveset)
Dude Love (Foley moveset w/ Dude taunts and entrance)
Joey, Rodney and Pete from the Mean Street Posse (I tried making them as generic and feeble as possible while retaining their signature moves)
AKI Man (Revenge moveset…sort of)
Maya Inca Boy (see AKI Man)

What’s cheaper than sleeper holds in this game? Jericho being able to do the Liontamer in Revenge with no Special at all…same with Malenko’s Texas Cloverleaf and Bret/Sting’s Sharpshooter. Takes about 5-6 applications and you’ll have every jobber in your way tapping like a bitch. But I did use Stone Cold to unlock Andre and Vince in Championship mode…if three stunners wouldn’t finish the job, the sleeper would. Especially in a cage or a ladder match, the sleeper is really good.

For Survival mode, pick someone with a powerful and cheap strike. Bradshaw’s my pick. Just keep Hammering away, don’t forget to irish whip your opponents and hit them as they rebound off the ropes to get them on the apron -> easy elimination. My personal record in that mode is about 100. Easy way to unlock Mae Young, Jerry Lawler, Ken Shamrock and such…but you’re better off going through Championship mode to get HBK, Andre and Vince unless you’ve got your technique down absolutely pat.

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4-ways battles cut down the cheapness of submissions by a lot, and are generally more fun. Some of the weak grabs available to the CAWs are strong, but not as bad as the sleeper. The normal roster generally doesn’t use the really strong leg submissions.

Most of my CAWs are just overpowered original characters. Although the Antonio Inoki I made is pretty much a copy from his Virtual Pro Wrestling 2 incarnation and he’s pretty overpowered as well.

Lots of characters are good for survival mode. Rikishi, Jericho, Bradshaw, Blackman, HHH, HBK, Saturn, Undertaker, Tazz…usually I’ll just pick Saturn or Rikishi. Survival mode gets monotonous pretty quickly. If I have to unlock everything I’ll play for a while, pause and come back to it later.

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Scott “FUCKING FLASH” Norton!

nuff said!

lol he was sooooooooooooo broke in WCW/nWo vs.

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Does anyone play Virtual Pro Wrestling 2? It has a really interesting MMA mode. As well, if you like All-Japan or 90’s Japanese puro in general, there’s some stuff in it that they took out of WM2k and No Mercy that’s alot of fun. Fighting spirit comebacks etc.

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If I had the means to play it on my N64 and not an emulator, I would.

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Since I don’t care much for Gamefaqs I figured this would be more useful here. As you all know, throws target one of 5 attributes. Head, Body, Arms, Legs, and Flying. All ground attacks(Sak-fu stomp et cetera) target the flying attribute. If you don’t know consult the FAQ made by Pop Culture Monkey on Gamefaqs.

To my knowledge none of the weak or strong strikes target the arms, but a few of them target the other 4 areas. This includes the flying attribute. Most of the jumping kicks and leg drops fall under this category. This can be tested against the AI by repeatedly hitting them with the same move, and they will never hold a body part. Certain throws like the Sidewalk slam also target the flying attribute. All of the “low blow” moves target the flying attribute.

I originally thought flying attribute was only good for stall moves and high flying moves. However after playing recently I discovered that hitting an opponent with nothing but attacks that target flying attribute, makes them extremely easy to KO. Normally the AI on expert never gets KOd by the first KO. However after hitting them with lots of flying attacks, the AI repeatedly was KOd the first time. Moves like Big Kick will KO very, very easily.

As for basic strats? When you’re attitude meter is low and you’re afraid your opponent will reverse you, turn your opponent and grab them by the back. That way they can’t press A to reverse your throw. Likewise, when you reverse a Strong grab, don’t attempt to strong grab your opponent. Instead throw them out of the ring, and then taunt to build meter.

In terms of CAWs…it’s really easy to make a broken CAW. The only thing I feel is worth mentioning is that the auto punch reversals (hip toss counter, mini-chops) are much, MUCH weaker than strikes. Even though the strike reversals aren’t guaranteed, they do at least 5 times more damage.

Also Ken Shamrock and Essa Rios have special reversal styles that aren’t normally selectable. They are basically leftover from VPW2. In order to use them for a CAW you’ll have to Clone Shamrock or Rios. However you have to keep their fighting style EXACTLY the same. Otherwise you’ll get the normal reversal styles.