No.
Never.
Show something, anything in SFIV that animates as well as Elena or Makoto in SF3, kid.
If you can’t, shut the fuck up and stop posting.
Tatsunoko vs Capcom is 2.5d, and I dare say it plays as well as any of the animated vs games of the past. Plays a lot like Xmen vs Street fighter in both speed and playability. Let’s not think 2.5D immediately means KOF:MI and SFIV. It’s just another graphics medium…and it CAN work.
Anyone who has even played TvsC can verify this.
[media=youtube]HEFNcW5-FBA&feature=related[/media]
exactly people have a problem seeing the difference between the art style and direction of TvC vs. MI or SFIV
are you mentally ill? What the fuck does SFIII have to do with SFIV or to a lesser extent KOFXII? Absolutely nothing.
3d has ALWAYS been more fluid than 2d and more detailed than 2d since 2005/06 - the release of the 360/PS3. The High Definition capabilities of the PS3 are lightyears ahead of the 3d games you must be playing on your ps2. Bump mapping, Dynamic lighting and shadows, real time physics. Get with the program. I suppose you also think your crappy saturday morning cartoons or anime have ‘more fluid’ animation than a pixar film?
Thanks for playing, kid.
There’s actually a lot of really old 2-d animation that has more character than pixar 3-d animation. Why do games have to be in 3-d? It can’t be for realism. No one ever loads up a video game and thinks “Heeey this isn’t a game, it MUST be a movie”. That is especially true when the game involves throwing fireballs out of your hands. KOFXII has some fairly slick animation. The resolution could be a little higher though.
That’s just it - we want games to LOOK 2D, and have all the character of 2D. But 3D has technical advantages - it lets you display at any resolution you want, and it lets you animate at full framerate without needing to draw every single frame. It also means you can keep your animation data even if you change or increase the detail of your models and textures.
If SNK had gone 2.5D with 12, (or earlier, MI), then in 10 years time they could still use the animation data they’ve painstakingly built up, and it will look modern 10 years from now. Whereas in 10 years, the sprites they’ve drawn for 12 will look just as outdated as 98’s does now. (it wont even take that long since they already look kinda old.)
The PS3 Naruto game shows that cel shading is getting close to the look of drawn sprites. KOF, with its large number of characters and moves, could benefit from 3D more than other games, because it simply takes so damn long to hand animate everything.
As for that person that claimed 3s Elena and Makoto were better animated than anything in SF4, I just sat down at SF4 just then and took a look. Although I never noticed before, actually every character’s clothes do animate in detail.
I think one trap fans of 3s animation always fall for, is that 3s animation is really exaggerated. Coming from KOF to 3s, it always looked strange to me how “jiggly” all their clothes and stuff are, like they’re animating stuff just for the sake of motion.
It’s a style thing, I don’t like it personally. But to claim that it’s better animated than something else which uses a subtle style (but more frames of animation) is like saying DOA1 is better animated than everything else just because of its ridiculous boob physics.
One nice effect that 3D lets you do is good slo-mo. You see it in SF4’s super startup (not ultra, super.) When you slo-mo a 2D game it just makes it more obvious how many or few distinct images there are. But when you slo-mo in 3D, it generates as many images as you need at the slower rate. It’s cool in a 3D game to see the opponent’s punch slowly descending smoothly whilst you go into your super animation and interrupt them.
Its the exaggerated animation that makes 2d so great that 3d can never EVER do. in 2d you can exaggerate animations, you can blur kicks and fists for emphasis, you can go crazy with the purportions, and you have to purposely lower the amount of fames in light moves or else the hitboxes will be too small and the openings for stuff as simple as normals will be too huge. all of this can look right in 2d and look wrong in 3d, no matter how many fancy smancy filters or styles you put on it, 3d will never be able to pull that off.
No, I would not want a 2.5D game for this. I’m quite pleased with the look. All I want is, more -
Naruto: Ultimate Ninja Storm style graphics + King of Fighters 2D gameplay would look pretty cool. But I really like pixel art.
i am now convinced you know absolutely nothing about fighting games other than what you have absorbed in the past few months from sf4 fever. so you know about gaming and graphics, but the fighting game community is different from other genres. 2d sprites are very special to us, despite what may be the new, realistic engine. dont get me wrong, i love the best, 3d graphics in my shooters, but keep it away from my fighters (except tvc, that just looks bad ass)
and dude is right, you wont find the fluidity in sf4 that you find in sf3. and seeing that sf3 is sf4’s predecessor, i would say that it has a lot do with sf4. kid.
look whos talking another 09er who joined after SFIV came out.
I’ve been playing fighting games consistently since SF2 hit arcades. I know what’s out there and I know what looks damn good and what doesn’t.
you are just a hypocrite and I fuckin’ hate hypocrites.
back on topic, the first thing that struck out to me in SFIII was how animated Ryu/Ken/Akuma’s pants were. Those characters had extra work done on their sprite, not every character was so fortunate. Hugo had way more attention done to his sprite then say, Alex. Either way, SFIV is well animated. The blocky style and slow gameplay was how they chose to make the game. It didn’t have to be that way, it could have been like TvC just like KOFXII could have been like TvC, in which case you would say it “just looks bad ass.”
great point
with KOFXII there are plenty of slow downs during counters, finishing moves, all it serves is to show off how few sprites were made, in motion you won’t see the shortcomings but in slow mo you can’t deny them.
not that it matters but i still dont’ see a comeback to my post…
Please watch this, look at Rolls super, then Karas’s.
[media=youtube]-1LUrqRxvz0&feature=related[/media]
Seriously… dude, it’s all art, and all medium has potential that you’re looking at in a very limited fashion.
I can’t see a 2d game being as graphically dynamic as this game is, not cheaply. Nowhere NEAR. We’re talking a lot of flair, with the speed of a 2d fighter. The look of a 2d fighter, and the dynamics of a 2d fighter with everything that kicks ass about 3d = dynamic perspective, depth and rapid environmental changes that you’re just not going to get with 2d in our lifetime.
The ability for the stage itself, the background, sky, the players uniform, position, weapon in hand to change and modulate throughout a fight would be so ridiculously costly that I cannot see anyone even bothering to do it in 3d. The camera able to rotate around a 2d character? Go under and around him or above? Can it happen?
Sure. It would basically amount to having to convert moves to rapidly go to FMV on the fly. (Like V13’s Astral Heat except that it would have to do that, then revert back to its original frames) That’s pretty damn ambitious. I really wouldn’t hold my breath.
GT review
probably a cross post
who gives a fuck about 2.5D games
they don’t feel the same as true 2D ones and never will
2.5D is a viable aristic approach but it needs to be handled correctly. The examples we have seen thus far havn’t been exactly encouraging but there is still hope. IMO, I just wish SNK just used a good looking 3D graphics engine with that “pencil shade” style shading thing they always do to produce a game that could have had all the bell’s and whisltes people are asking for in addition to a large roster and larger movesets.
Thats actually a good review.
Goddammit why do you people NOT appreciate GOOD 2-D hand-drawn art? I swear to fucking god, just because Americans think 3-D is the greatest thing on the planet and hide behind it all the goddamned time doesn’t mean that its good.
KOFXII looks great the way it is (sans HUDS/interface) and the fact that people want it to look shitty like SF4 makes no fucking sense to me.
Why do people have such a fucking aversion to something that looks nice? Why? Seriously tell me this?
Next, people are gonna want Udon to fuck up 3s and have them redraw it.
There is nothing wrong with pixel based art it looks fine. The fact that SNK stuck with pixel art is something I appreciate and others do as well. It not being in HD doesn’t hurt it.
3-D is not always better. Why can’t Americans get that through their fucking head? People hating on the art in KOFXII makes no sense, but SF4 looks amazing? What the f u c k?
I appreciate the 2-d art of the sprites, I just think its outdated and almost obsolete for games. These KOF12 sprites look so bad, sorry but they just do. I cant believe they said it took them a long time for each character or whatever, they must be lying.
Man, quit passing off people’s negative reviews and thoughts as “Americans”, this just makes you look bad.
Ok, well then why is that Americans are the main ones crying about sprites being “outdated”? Who gives a fuck? But whatever, people are going to believe what they want. Let KOFXII die in the states because it doesn’t fucking look like God of War or Mortal Kombat or whatever the fuck Americans like. And yes, the majority of people in this country when it comes to games have bad fucking taste and that is my goddamned opinion–and the fact that 3-D talking animal movies are still in demand doesn’t such much about American taste in art anyway.
Its just a shame when a game looks nice and is done in 2-D people will find anything to say about it because its not American.
Have fun in this fucking thread, I am done.