Not to get too involved but people saying about Ryu not being able to do shit in the air, last I checked while playing SF he’s perfectly cable of ‘floating’ some what by doing an air tatsu… So I do disagree.
Also, this is an interesting point. People talking about MvC3 just want MvC2 again… I don’t get it. By alot of ‘hardcore’ fans of the series logic, if it isn’t exactly the same as MvC2 then it’s not gonna be worth playing. Well why not just play MvC2? Do you just want MvC2 with new sprites and a few new stages, few more characters and nothing else or summat? That won’t happen.
I think we just want better options. But yes I would rather have them remake MvC1 with more characters, or MvC2 than worry about them messing up this game for real to be honest.
Yes but the fact that Capcom characters were not made to fight in a vs game environment, while marvel characters were has been an issue in each game. Marvel characters are naturally well equipped for this fighting environment and capcom characters get small tweaks hear and there. (chun airdash, beam shinkuu) but never an overhaul drastic enough to make them on equal level with marvel characters.
Sentinel has a one button beam attack, there is absolutely no reason a SF character should have that , and the number of flying character on capcom’s side is much lower
I dont think most marhvel heads want it to be exactly like mvc2 we just want it to blow mvc2 out of the water. and some of the stuff we have seen and read has us scared. xvsf was a pretty sweet game then the next few were alright, and then marvel 1 was pretty sweet, and then mvc2 came out and blew them all away. mvc3 has to do the same it has some big ass shoes to fill. all I want is something similar but not the same as mvc2 with more characters more features and more crazieness. as for air dashes I guess Im alright with that if it makes every character more competitive. What I dont want is for it to be anything like tvc.
IMO, universal air dash has little to do with what makes TvC feel like it does. Personally, I’m more inclined to say that the lack of 8-way and stuff like real triangle jumping is more to blame.
Not really. The characters that “don’t need airdashes” don’t need them specifically because they already have stuff that is WAAAAAY better than an airdash. So unless your solution is to start handing out Spiral/Strider teleports, Sentinel flight, or AHVBs, airdash is the more practical answer.
Advanced movement options define the top tier of MVC2, not counting Cable (AHVB) you have to go about 15-20 characters down the tier listings to find another character with not advanced movement options
From the MVC2 low tier league thread
Every banned character besides cable has an advance movement option.
Also about the imbalance between Capcom and Marvel in this area 10 of the 11 Characters listed are marvel character.
I was going to post something like this, however you did it much much better then I would have done so. This pretty says alot about the importance of advanced movement in a game such as Marvel vs Capcom where literally Air Dominance is more important than being just simply grounded. Great Post, I agree 100% :tup: Only thing now is I hope that Capcom is listening and hopefully will incorporate universal airdashes and double jump for everyone.
As important air the advanced movement options are its only one piece of why the tiers fall the way they do, especially for capcom’s side of the game, they are from the most basic points of their design NOT MADE TO FIGHT AGAINST MARVEL CHARACTERS. I tried making a thread about it yesterday but it was deemed useless and unneccessary by the MVC3 forum mod. :looney:
I agree with what you said (To me it looked like Capcom seemingly thought that Ryu could still use his SFII like tactics in a game that isn’t suited for this style of play), however having airdashes simply will not hurt or lower diversity, and will only improve situations for characters who didn’t have it before hand which is pretty much what everyone is saying. Obviously Capcom can make individual improvements to push other characters up the latter, but this one universal notion will already be an effective benefit already w/o even getting to personal character tweaks.
i dont agree, i think all MvC3 has to do is at least be on par with marvel vs capcom1 to be considered a worthy sequel.
people have been playing mvc2 for 10 years now…but mvc3 has only been in development for 2 years. Thats 8 years of rust that capcom and marvel have to shake off. so much has happened between the two games, expecting this game to “blow mvc2 out of the water” is WAY too lofty of an expectation. maybe for mvc4, yes. MvC2 was a grand slam, but for mvc3, ill be happy with a solid double
I absolutely agree they all need an air dash. And if they don’t have one, then they need to have their damage seriously buffed. Something like 2x the marvel top tier characters.
The Capcom characters that are not from SF/DS (e.g. Strider, Commando, Ruby, Megaman) are mostly fine; minor tweaks like making Captain Sword reliable or letting Megaman choose which weapon he starts with fixes a lot of their problems.
It’s the SF characters that tend to have problems; they are simply not designed for a Marvel-style game (save Dhalsim).
I’m not opposed to universal air dash, but I think that other ways of movement and mixup would be better for aesthetics and more interesting gameplay-wise. The short jump for characters like Chris would just seem more fitting. Whatever is going to make the game more balanced is better though, honestly.
I’ll use Ryu vs cyclops as a quick example
Ryu was made long before super jump screens when a fireball provided more than enough spacial control for his current game, not only that but a full screen beam attack would have been considered broken in the games he was originally put on. For this reason no SF characers had beam attacks. Also because they were made before superjump screens came into play (this is hugely important) they mostly don’t have diagonal, upward and full screen attacks. Blackheart’s inferno, doom’s Photons, cyclops and iceman’s upward beams are specials you would never find in a SF game. Even when they altered ryu with the beam shinkuu in XvSF they still never addressed the issue that he wasn’t built to attack people above him. It would take a major alteration to ryu to make him able to deal with this situation and its one Capcom never decided to do, probably because it would be against the basic, familiar design of his character.
Cyclops on the other hand was built to a much better standard, due to who he is he had a beam attack the day he was put into a fighting game. Also because he was built for a game with a super jump screen he was given, in his core design, ways to deal with opponent in that space. He has an upward diagonal beam attack, even his gene splice has a projectile added to the end to cover the extra space a normal dragon punch, like ryu’s, wouldn’t cover, HE HAS AN AIMABLE BEAM SUPER THAT CAN HIT AND OPPONENT EVEN IF THEY ARE ABOVE OR BEHIND HIM.
Marvel character were made to fight agaisnt people who fly and airdash and double jump, and capcom character (especially the Street fighters) were not. Even small things like Gambit’s staff being able to hit you when he throws it up for his super are signs that people being above and diagonal to them was always in consideration when those character were made.
It comes down to the debate whether Capcom character should be stay true to their designs or be modified to deal with a super jump screen. If Capcom characters stay true to their past story versions, and i believe they will, since MVC3 is supposed to have a deep story. Then they will be crushed by marvel again on the tier list and in tournament play.
Edit: also the problem with adding a short jump for people with no airdash is that it in no way helps you catch storm when shes running away from you in the top of the superjump screen. It would take you all of 5 minutes on day 1 of MVC3 to realize short jump would be useless in chasing after people.
I would prefer it if not all characters had air-dashes and instead they got interesting things. Like Wolvie would have sped up divekicks or whatev, other chars should combo off their throws and others still could have interesting conditional unblockables 9that bitch from TvC), or serious chip traps (Strider/Doom from MvC2). From there it’s just about making sure the characters with different gameplay designs can reallistically land their best setups against the characters with the superior movement.
If everyone does get an airdash it won’t be the end of the world for me, I just hope that in the even of that happening that we still get only some characters that can genuinely air dash in all directions instead of IADing.
Wish an armor Changing X was in the game.