I play VF (not competently but I try and I like the game). I tried to play Tekken Revolution as the only Tekken I’ve ever owned and played for more than 2 sec in the arcade was Tekken 3. I busted out my old Tekken magazines ,with long paragraphs of Tekken 2 moves (lol), played it for a little bit, got killed and quit. It’s too much effort for me to try memorizing all that shit.
VF is a lot easier to enjoy as a novice player. I just don’t like the fact that I know Jacky is going to do some aggressive shit at the start of every match, but I can’t get to a safe distance because his shit just continues to encroach on the space I’m trying to establish. In SF, I would just do a neutral jump or a dp to keep people from trying to get right in on me, but I can’t do it in VF, as Kage. Then I don’t like finishing strings because I know I’ll just get counter attacked, and if I score some area and some tempo, then my opponent just turtles up until I’m out of set ups, and goes back to string, string, string, and I have no dp to keep them honest.
So we can get into Tekken team’s upcoming Tekken x SF and how the heck they are going to handle that? Will SF characters without fireballs fare better and fireball guys, or someone like Guile shouldn’t even bother being in the game?
In regards to Jacky’s, and bad Jacky players at that, you kinda have to know which strings he likes to do and how to block them. Typically how it works with strings is that usually with each additional move in the string is typically unsafer as it goes, especially on block. With other strings he has there are points where you can duck the next hit for free and punish him. Another way is to block certain parts and side step to get an advantage or a punish. Most bad Jacky players just try to do an attack string because that’s all they want to do so naturally there are ways to just simply punish them until they start getting fresh.
How I see strings in general from a 2D perspective is that they function like “rekkas” in which generally the first part is usually something like a mid or something that is disadvantage on block and they lose their turn. But, the next parts that come after are mainly used as frame traps to catch other players that think that they can press buttons afterwards to start their offense on the close game. So strings are kinda good on making players double guess when it’s time to attack or not. But low and behold, each additional part of a string, that I have observed over the general cast, is more negative on block than the previous move and usually the last move in the string is the one where you can get guaranteed punishes on block.
So I’d first test if I can just block everything and get my guaranteed punish. If that doesn’t work due to push back or safer frame disadvantage, then I’d go for trying to hit them out of a string if parts of it hit High and what they’re doing is really contrived. Even if I can’t punish with a launcher, I’ll at least try to 2P them to get the frame advantage to start my offense. If they’re bad and still try to mash buttons after I get advantage, then I’ll just counter hit them with my fastest mid or something and keep up the offense.
I would really, really love to play more VF but what’s holding me back is PSN is dead and the online wasn’t hot anyways to try to punish things consistently so I wasn’t playing in a good environment to learn it.
Taking out the side-step options just turns it into a watered down 2d fighting game.
I think 3d fighting games would be more interesting to me if there were characters with 2d-style zoning. Not sure how they’d make the character good though, it’d probably be based around setting traps on the floor and leaving them there, limiting your opponents movement options. Definitely would require a bit of testing.
I still love how the current 3d fighting games are for the most part so it doesn’t bother me if they decide not to change their formula too much.
3d games will most likely never make a comeback in the states for a multitude of reasons.
-Too much investment in time learning movelists and frame data to see results
-Doesn’t have comic book characters in it
-Not enough flash explosion effects
-Not enough easy access TOD’s
-Doesn’t have MMHS
Tekken x Street Fighter will be an interesting look into what the general Fighting scene want. I forgot to vote but eh, I gave up on FG’s once I figured out MOBA’s is more worth the time spent unfortunately.
The reason why I don’t get seriously into 3d games had nothing to do with 3d movement, and everything to do with ginormous movelists. I play Tekken enough to know my main’s stuff, and the basics of other characters, but to take it to the next level I need to put in time and effort just to make sure I don’t get blown away by random unfamiliar strings.
Yeah, as others have said I don’t play because of the strings not the movement, in a 2D figter you just have to know who can do grounded overheads or lows from the air and be ready for those few moves, along with low blocking until the opponent jumps in a 3D game it feels like you have to know everything in everyone’s move lists, even down to the rubbish ones people say not to bother using unless you want to get blown up as soon as you have to block something.
Aint no-one got time for that.
Also I like zoning characters with trappy projectiles so outsite of FUC and SCVs viola to sn extent they give me no characters I wish to actally play.
3D fighting games are what they are. Sure I like them less than 2D stuff but I’d definitely like them less if they stripped out anything that made them special. When 3D fighting games began to embrace the true meaning of being 3D, that’s when they began to shine and became something unto themselves.
People just don’t find it interesting from a visual stand point, to realize what the game offers. The main issue isn’t the tutorial, since VF4/EVO still have the best tutorials in any fighting game and that was 10 years ago, and even then people were still finding the game too hard, for whatever reason.
KOF '98 and MvC2 are the closest to VF in terms of speed and back and forth between both players. VF takes it up a notch from them in the speed, decision making, and keeping your hands busy, which while fun for some is too much for others. This is magnified by having an up close exchange game that other games don’t have, making it foreign and suffocating, when a lot of people prefer being able to make desicions at a slower pace and from safe distance(SF).
my main problem with 3D fighters is the randomness factor, which stems from the attacks that come out while/after doing 3D Movements, that most of the time you cant even react to.
this randomness BS happens even in the highest level of matches, very frequently. The whole point of this thread was to try and find ways to clean up that aspect of the games.
Randomness like what exactly? What exactly are you unable to react to?
For the people who’s complaint is about long movelists should give SCV another look. If you’re looking for fast gameplay, then give SC2HD a look when it drops in the fall.
But personally, I don’t feel that there’s a problem getting people interested in 3D games. There’s plenty of people interested in 3D games if you want to compare sales numbers, but when it comes to tournaments, 2D games are much popular which I don’t see changing no time soon.
Or who knows. Maybe SC2HD can capitalize on people’s nostalgia the way SF4 did.
This type of character variety exists in 3D games as well. You would never play a Mishima like Marduk, they have completely different goals and styles. You would never play a greek like you would Algol. Etc… etc…
If it just boils down to ‘i want projectiles, damnit!’, then fuck, I don’t know, play Jojo ASB when that comes out in a week.
SCV also has four different characters that use projectiles.
I’m confused as to how making 3D fighters 2D fighters is a solution to any problem.
What if any 3D games do you play seriously? Eddie, Yosuke, RayBlade, and many others make things look “non-random”. “Randomness” is a troubling word when describing a fighting game because it can indicate a lack of knowledge as opposed to useful insight. If you’re using “random” to indicate “I don’t understand how my 3D game works yet”… practice more. =]
2D FG differences between characters are just more readily apparent, even with the more dry or standard games. In games like Tekken, what separates one character from another tends to be far more nuanced, and it’s often even harder to tell character differences when it’s top Korean players bdc’ing all over the fucking place and just safely poking or whiff punishing. Same with VF, there’s definite playstyles and difference but the fundamental play is the same for every character (Even moreso in FS with standardized jabs etc), and you don’t usually say anything that’s really “out there” like some anime fg characters outside of maybe stance shit and counters/sabakis that probably don’t make much sense if you don’t really understand what’s going on. Compare this to something like Gief vs Guile where it’s very obvious as to what’s going on even for a neophyte, or Faust v Venom which is “Yo what is all this crazy shit goin on”.
SC5 definitely adds projectiles in a more meaningful way, but the closest you get to traditional zoning is Algol. Viola and Zwei are more “dump shit on you for mixups/pressure” and Ezio crossbow is more of a long range surprise poke with ass frames on block, so it doesn’t fill the same role as a traditional hado.
Also not to put this in a bad way but VF is an old man’s game. There’s less emphasis on reactions and straight up spacing as opposed to reads based on risk v reward or player tendencies and considering overall stage positioning. Even compared to other 3d FGs that see play it requires knowing the system as opposed to just going in with basics. That isn’t to say that it’s really hard to do so or doesn’t reward fundamentals, but there’s a reason it has a reputation of being hard to get into (Besides having barely any players compared to popular FGs).
