Nothing needs to be realistic, but they need to step it up in aesthetics and timely releases outside of Japan.
I’d put VF at the top of what a 3D game should play like, and DOA at the the top of what a 3D game should look
like.
Timely releases is the biggest thing though. It’s why other 2D games that aren’t SF or Marvl aren’t that popular. Having fast walk speeds could help 3D games as well from the beginner perspective, but still keep the advantages that stepping gives. Left hand movement is one of the biggest things that’s tough for beginners.
It’s the best thing Sega, Namco and Team Ninja could do really. That’s the number one complaint people have with 3D fighters when first playing them. Hell people who DO play 3D fighters bitch about other 3D games being " slow and clunky" when starting out, lol.
I’ve given TTT2 and SCV a fair shot of the 3D fighters i’ve tried. In short i find the entry level of TTT2 really high, especially for someone who is new to Tekken and new to 3D fighters. In short it comes down to this; the game is convoluted with too many game mechanics with each their own intricacies, too much to learn. I’m talking about the combo, tag, throw, parry, backdash cancelling, wall/ground break, knockdown etc systems. I’ve gone through the grind of atleast learning backdash cancelling and my characters BnB’s(though Steve probably wasn’t a good beginner character to choose) midscreen and at the wall, Tag and Solo.
On top of this the cast is so large with each having such a big movelist where even alot of the the moves are “useless”. Game is amazing though if you are willing to put in the time and effort, i can’t.
SC5 i’ve dropped because my friends stopped playing it, but i actually find this game alot of fun. Entry level is beginner friendly while still providing depth without forcing it on you. Also like the relatively short combos, i might get back into it.
DOA5 horrible online and VF5:FS nobody plays, simple as that.
There needs to be a 3D game that doesn’t have a move list 80 miles long and doesn’t make movement so god damn tedious. The big reason I (and others I know) don’t give a dink about Tekken is because I don’t feel like memorizing the frame data on 80+ normals and chains for every single character in the game before I can begin to play at a competent level, and wanting to move around quickly shouldn’t involve canceling a backdash into a side step into a crouch into a DP into a HCB into a pretzel into RDP into side step again. That is so stupid and unintuitive I can’t even believe it’s still a thing.
You know what would be cool? People might call me a scrub for this but I could not care less. Make a 3D game with 2D style normals and specials and give it Marvel dashing. Then all you have to memorize is standing, crouching, jumping, and special moves and then you can get on to actually playing the damn game.
But there are moves you don’t normally get in chains in a 3D fighter. If you mean strings in a 2D fighter like say Vsav, it would be redundant to count LP, MP, then LP > MP as a chain because they are the same moves and have the same frame data. If I do Law’s Junkyard, I get two normals I otherwise do not have access to unless I do Junkyard. Most of the chains are like that in a 3D fighter. Or even Law’s back 2,2. I can’t do JUST the second 2 on the back 2,2 if I wanted to, I have to do the chain. Then you get into while standing normals, while landing, wakeup moves, while running moves, and all of this shit adds up to more things you have to remember on top of the neutral non chain normal moves and command normals.
Tekken’s got like 15 moves per character. Shit ain’t even bad.
I mean, seriously… Once you learn movement, you can pick up most characters by learning some BnB combos, their T10 moves, and the i10-i15 punishers.
It’s like 15 moves and 4 combos…
I hate strings. I don’t like them because they take up space that a player hasn’t earned by understanding how to control the space, and even when you are controlling the space, you can’t do anything except use strings to gain space, because 3d fighters don’t utilize projectiles or more creative special attacks well.
3d fighters have a more realistic quality because they have the 3d plane, but they don’t move realistically, and please don’t bring up the “but it has a fighting bear and an ogre”(not picking on Tekken). The circling in MMA isn’t as slow and exaggerated as side stepping because the real life fighters are trying to move quickly and conserve energy that the video game characters don’t have, which makes real life fights turn into more of a 2d fight than 3d.
I wish the 3d games were faster and let me do more moves like SF which lets me do st.jab jab, cr. jab, cr. strong, special attack, or mix in throws, and allowed more ground control attacks to make knockdowns more meaningful, almost like corner trapping. Gain space by movement, and eliminate the ability of strings(eliminate strings) to advance your character into another character’s space. Special moves are the best tool to have for space control. Put a premium on side stepping, so if you do it too much you will suffer if you get taken to the ground.
Funny you mention Vsav as I can get different frame data from a different chain. As Vsav has Renda bonus with some characters and Victor’s data changes if continue to hold down the button. Also, the data can change in normal play from turbo aka frame skipping. Something that is +7 in the data vsav can be +3 to +5 in gameplay.
How come no one tries VF? What’s nice about VF is that the movesets are healthily homogeneous. 5P will pretty much be that quickest attack that gives plus frames on block, helps starts your pressure, and could be crouched against. 6P or 66P tends to be your fastest mid and is negative frames on block meaning you lose your turn, and on hit is of course plus frames so you get your turn. Low kicks are another way to open up people but on hit you’re going to be negative frames on hit so you lose your turn. Etc. Etc.
So although there are a bunch of moves, it’s easy to discern what each “kind” of move generally does like 5P Punches, 6P Elbows, and Low Kicks do so it’s pretty easy to start on a new character to learn then fill out the rest by working with the rest of their moves. Box stepping is also easier and seems to cover more distance for the amount of inputs put into it than Tekken so your hands don’t have to be that crazy. Then there is that more nuanced and diverse inside game that is unique to Virtua Fighter that makes it “fast” for me once you’re inside and making snap decisions.
Then there are “general” punish trees that are easy to follow and it helps that in VF5FS, there is a frame advantage tool in training mode that is color coded so you know what you should be able to punish with. -10 is punishable by throws, -12 should be punishable by 5P as I recall, -17/18 should be punishable by launchers. I think even the general move lists are smaller than Tekken.
I think the main issue with VF is just that it needs a better tutorial mode. Like if you can get the good content from virtuafighter.com’s guides and somehow make a good interface within the game to explain the generalities and fundamentals, VF should be a really, really easy to pick up and fun to stay with.